quote:I don't care what they say in the Encyclopedia if it doesn't jibe with the aired dialogue. When he saw her in action, he knew he wanted her on his next command. Now, that likely means 1)he wasn't in command of the ship he was on at that time, and/or 2) he knew he was getting a new command in the not-too-distant future. But he darn sure wasn't in command of the E-D at that point.
For the record, Jonah, I am in complete agreement with everything you've said. All I'm doing is pointing out what the Chronology implied.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
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quote:Consider this: would you give command of the Enterprise CVN-65 to the commander of, say... one of the US frigates? (Trivia: Poland recently received two older frigates from the US Navy, although personally I have no idea what for )
In the US navy, the captain of an aircraft carrier must be an aviator himself. It's not quite the perfect analogy, since Starfleet's mission is not entirely military (and since in comparing the Stargazer and the Enterprise you're comparing similar missions, not armament).
quote:As one of my friends wrote in his fanfic, "One must learn to know how te read between werses. Any captain can be described as 'excellent commander' in his files, but if he's really good, it will be recognized and awarded." What I'm trying to say is, the fact that Picard was in command of Stargazer for twenty years doesn't say good about his command abilities. He may be good, but he wasn't good enough to receive new, better ship. He seemed to be normal, average competent starship captain.
Picard was an excellent commander. The evidence is right there -- he was trusted with a starship and a crew on a mission beyond the borders of the Federation for an extended amount of time, far from any admiral's oversight, and far from the protection offered by the Federation fleet.
You place much weight in what class of starship he commanded, when what you need to be looking at is:
a) What mission he was assigned b) his accomplishments on that mission
It is not the starship that makes the captain, but it is the captain that makes the successful crew & mission.
quote: Picard most likely was not at the Academy seeing as Boothby hadn't seen him in quite a while,
Oops, forgot about that. Still, he could have had some other assignment that wasn't as captain of a ship; staff officer etc. I think we can assume that Picard was one of the fleets better officers; he was trusted with an extended exploration mission. Just because he wasn't assigned a newer ship doesn't mean he's a bad or even average captain. They didn't give Kirk the Excelsior, did they?
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Kazeite: Thank you for your respones.
You're welcome.
quote:So, akb1979, you're sure about that extra ship? I'm gonna check some chronologies to spot that puppy
I'm not 100% sure about there being a name for it, but it was definately referred to over the years. I too find it hard to believe that a captain with 20+ years of experience would be made to sit on his ass for a decade.
quote:And your 'shakedown' theory seems plausible to me. I wonder if... no, wrong year. I was wondering if it's possible that he met young Ben Sisko before 2368. (totally unrelated, I know )
Hell, any theory is plausible - it's all fiction.
As for the comments about where Poland is, I know just fine - it's in me! I'm 0.25 Polish as my mother's parents are from that country. I LOVE the chocolates there (you can eat all you want and not get sick or all those nasty spots! ), but I HATE all the potholes in the roads.
-AK
-------------------- If you cant convince them, confuse them.
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
OK, so we are basically in agreement, that Picard did not received another ship between 'gazer and Enterprise, right?
Snay, we don't really know if he indeed was on "mission beyond the borders" for an "extended amount of time".
I'm not saying that you're not right, it's just we know about... six or seven events for twenty years of service.
Hm... I wonder... was the five-year missions still 'in use' during that era?
quote:You place much weight in what class of starship he commanded, when what you need to be looking at is:
a) What mission he was assigned b) his accomplishments on that mission
Sorry, my fault.
So, let's see... was he assigned a typical mission of exploration? Or four of them, for that matter? And, did he accomplished something big? Oh yeah, he made first contact with several civilisations...
You know, I tried to count civilizations that he made first contact during TNG era and I counted about twenty (+/- 5, depending on circumstances) That leaves only handful of aliens for the Stargazer era. Not very good On the other hand it may be the average score and it was Enterprise-D which was doing exceptionally well in that matter.
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Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Dukhat~ I gotcha. Sorry to get grumpy about that. I just get a little persniketty when it seems that someone doesn't address a major salient point of one of my posts. Glad to know we're in agreement, and sorry for misreading your intention.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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You know, I tried to count civilizations that he made first contact during TNG era and I counted about twenty (+/- 5, depending on circumstances) That leaves only handful of aliens for the Stargazer era. Not very good On the other hand it may be the average score and it was Enterprise-D which was doing exceptionally well in that matter. [/QB]
I guess John Logan didn't do his homework... If he came here we could have worked it out for him!
It maybe that 'first contact' situations are different from 'first meeting'?? Maybe?
Like in the episode "Transfigurations" - would that have been a First Contact situation?
Would The events of "The Jem'Hadar" have been a First Contact situation?
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
quote:Originally posted by Kazeite:Allright, back to topic
quote: AndrewR wrote: I guess John Logan didn't do his homework... If he came here we could have worked it out for him!
Personally I think that Logan performed admirably given the material he had to work with. A good scenario can make any story plausible
What 35 years and 653 hours of aired film?
I was joking in that as if he'd go through each episode and work out the number of Picard first contacts exactly? I'm just saying maybe we could contract out our expertise to the continuity staff for the movies and Enterprise... ROTFLMAO!! continuity... heheheheheh.
quote: It maybe that 'first contact' situations are different from 'first meeting'?? Maybe?
Like in the episode "Transfigurations" - would that have been a First Contact situation?
I counted that as the FC situation. [/QB]
See is that an 'official first contact' or just a meet up or something? Otherwise wouldn't there at least 40 or so 'first "This is Captain Jean-Luc Picard of the United Federation of Planets Starship Enterprise" to aliens that they'd never seen before?
Does that mean Clara Sutter can claim First Contact with that alien 'strand' species from "Imaginary Friend" or Picard gets that honour?
Does he claim first contact with the Crystalline Entity or do the inhabitants of Omicron Seti III?
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
Actually Startrek.com doesnt really say anything about his post Stargazer career. It states that in 2356 he was court-martialed and in 2363 he got the enterprise...so that means he drifted around the galaxy in a shuttlecraft obsessed to find in old ship for 7 years before starfleet felt pity for the old koot and gave him the enterprise.
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Actually, I just skimmed through short episode synopses and came out with that 20 number, and it took me about 10 minutes. So, it's not so hard. And Futurama Guy listed all his first contacts, including some dubious ones, in separate thread, too
What I count as the First Contact situation is situation when Picard stands up, tugs his shirt down and says: "This is captain Picard of the starship Enterprise." and he gets the response: "Pleased to meet you, we're yet another aliens of the week."
So it's would be wrong to give him credit for FC situations of other people, like Riker or Data. And it I think it doesn't count if they just stumble upon some lost relics of ancient civilisations or see some aliens passing by.
OK, what was the topic... Oh, yeah.
So, there's no solid evidence for that extra command and we generally agree that most of the FC situations took place during TNG, right?
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quote:As for the comments about where Poland is, I know just fine - it's in me! I'm 0.25 Polish as my mother's parents are from that country.
No way!? Good to know And you know that dr Pulaski is from Poland, too?
Yes way and no I didn't. Guess I should have really.
quote:I LOVE the chocolates there (you can eat all you want and not get sick or all those nasty spots!), but I HATE all the potholes in the roads.
Yeah, our potholes can be used to test all terrain transports and moon buggys. If they can survive Polish roads they will survive anything [/QB][/QUOTE]
HEHE!
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Registered: Apr 2001
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