quote:Originally posted by darkwing_duck1: It has all those features, but it isn't a SE...that comes out later.
The ad for the Nemesis DVD that aired during Enterprise said it was the "special edition" that was out, but nothing bout it being any more than one disk nor have I heard anything more being added to the disk than what was listed above (ie. commentary, deleted scenes, interviews).
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I don't get what you mean. If you mean, by leaving such a gaping window to bring Data "back", I agree. However, if you mean how he died, I disagree. I would prefer Data die in a blaze of glory then be attacked by an oil slick, or done in by Pa'wraiths in a Bajoran chapel!
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Yes, they cut the movie way too damned much. By removing the Data-Picard conversation over wine about friends moving on, they chopped a large bit of the heart of the movie right out. Then, they did it again with the Picard-Troi conversation about Shinzon. And last but not least, we lost the Darwin "how far we've come" reference, which besides being funny was a perfect Trek moment.
It's those sort of cuts that utterly ruined the film for many fans, I'd wager. It's what made this one lack heart compared to the others.
That having been said, though, I don't mind the removal of the Captain's seat-belt scene, or Madden's disappearance. He was a goober, and the seat-belted Picard looked like a baby in a carseat (especially given the size of the chair). It was a good idea executed in a retarded fashion.
Plus, I much prefer the ending as-is . . . it gives a happy-ending feel without being silly at all . . . it's deeper than the seat-belt scene even gets close to.
My only other issue along those lines would be the departure of Will Riker. These men have served together for 15 years through thick and thin, comments about family are weaved throughout the film, and what do they do? They shake hands. Men hug, too, you know . . . just not in front of the Klingons.
I'd have happily dealt with a movie longer than two hours if those scenes had been in. The movie as it stands is 116 minutes . . . would 130 have been such a terrible thing?
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
The least they could have done was to handle the ending of this movie a little better, moreso in the fashion of ST6. Sure we got resolution with Data, Riker and somewaht Picard, but I really don't recall seeing much of Crusher, Worf, Troi or LaForge in the last few minutes of the movie. They could have at least did something similiar to what they did in ST6, and gave the WHOLE crew some sort of bittersweet moment for an ending (outside their moment of silence) but moreso something more uplifting that 'life goes on' for an ending (which sorta covered with Data and Riker, but not the REST of the crew).
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posted
Guardian, you nailed it perfectly without me having to type a damn book here. Thanks!
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Malnurtured Snay: Andrew,
I don't get what you mean. If you mean, by leaving such a gaping window to bring Data "back", I agree. However, if you mean how he died, I disagree. I would prefer Data die in a blaze of glory then be attacked by an oil slick, or done in by Pa'wraiths in a Bajoran chapel!
Oh I agree there - but I still think what he did was tempered by the rest of the movie - and the actions that led to HIS action. PLUS the obvious TWOK analogue.
I'm sure there are OTHER ways to send a character out in a blaze of glory - Trek hasn't done a great job at doing them over the years. Spocks would be the best. The only one that has worked on many levels.
Actually the second would be the sacrifice of the Enterprise in TSFS!
The other have just been soulless - intended or not. Actually Kes's season 4 departure wasn't TOO bad - still not the best.
Actually mentioning Blaze of Glory - Eddington's departure was quite good.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
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Exactly - they have forgotten for all the TNG movies - with probably the exception of First Contact that TNG is a ensemble show - not just Picard and Data.
And yes - every movie they show to a farking test audience they rip the guts out of. I mean look at Generations, Insurrection and now Nemesis - all three films have had swaths of scenes cut from the final edit. This HAS to impact of the whole story. As we've seen from Nemesis - it's chopped the heart out of the movie.
The movie just wasn't that good. I can't believe they hyped it the way they did.
They should have had a non 'fan' writer. Kept Stewart and Spiner out of the picture. Got a new composer for the score (or rehired James Horner ) They shouldn't have had "madman villan tries to destroy a lot of people - Picards the only one who could stop him" I mean those are the sort of movies Shatner's ego would love - but even the TOS movies didn't head in that direction!
There are just so many things wrong with Nemesis. One thing they did do right - is the company they hired for the effects. EXCEPT - Trek isn't and has NEVER been about effects. It's been about story, message and characterisation.
I've always said DS9 could have been done in a black-room and one of the TOS episodes WAS - and they'd still turn out fine.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
The only thing that bugged me about Nemesis was how relaxed and silly Picard was at the Wedding. It was a bit over the top, but mabye he had already hit the "Picard 04" vintage to ease into his speach.
Some things about Nemesis were truly great though: The TNG crew fell for NONE of the obvious traps set for them and they even turned around the B9 thing by swapping Data in there. That was a truly "Trek" moment.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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Again, I disagree. Although the XO scene is whitewashed, both the score and the CGI are finished for it. If you cut out the last Picard/B4 scene, the XO scene would go right after the scene between Picard and Riker in the ready room. IMO, this was a much better ending for the film.
This part I assume is in reply to me. All I meant is that the DVD is not set up to retintegrate the footage into the movie (ie, branching), which is what I thought the questioner was asking. I have no philosophical objection to retoring footage.
Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: The only thing that bugged me about Nemesis was how relaxed and silly Picard was at the Wedding. It was a bit over the top, but mabye he had already hit the "Picard 04" vintage to ease into his speach.
I didn't have a problem with that. Picard and Riker are old friends at this point, and it's traditional for the Best Man to take a good natured shot or two at the bridal couple before his toast.
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-------------------- "Well, I mean, it's generally understood that, of all of the people in the world, Mike Nelson is the best." -- ULTRA MAGNUS, steadfast in curmudgeon
Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by The359: I bought my copy of the DVD today. Apparently some copies come with a CD-ROM containing a copy of the original Star Trek: Nemesis website, with trailers and the rotating iPix of the Romulan Senate and everything. My copy, unfortunatly, did not (all the Fullscreen versions seemed to have it though...).
Yeah, regarding the CD-ROM, I was thumbing through a Best Buy circular and I guess that it was a limited bonus with the DVD. According to the AD:
quote: Contains bonus Nemesis CD-ROM including 3 new Nemesis computer desktop images, a new Nemesis screensaver and 2 IPIX environments (The Romulan Senate and Valdore Bride).
Minimum 100 per store. No raincheck. In-store only
Evidently, too, it was only available with the 'widescreen' edition; unfortunately they only had the 'fullscreen' edition of it by the time I made it to the store and it was neither on sale or did it contain the CD-ROM.......
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I got the CD in my Widescreen Edition....although I really have'nt bothered to look at it yet.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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) They shouldn't have had "madman villan tries to destroy a lot of people - Picards the only one who could stop him" I mean those are the sort of movies Shatner's ego would love - but even the TOS movies didn't head in that direction!
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