posted
I'm sure most of us have been caught off guard at one point or another when they learn that a long-time friend or even a family member revels that they are gay. I've known some gay people, and wouldn't have guessed it. I've also known some people who I were sure had to be gay, but weren't.
Gays aren't easy to spot. If you put one hundred people in a room, and put one gay in with them, unless they're wearing a tee-shirt that says "I like to have sex with other men" (Or women, as the case may be), I couldn't tell them apart.
The only way to have a gay character in Star Trek would be to show that person in a homosexual relationship. I don't know how I would react to that. I don't mean to offend anyone, I honestly don't, but I'm not sure if I would feel comfortable watching that.
I know there are some gay people here, and I apologize. I know you've had a tough go of it, and I feel bad for adding to it. I consider myself a fairly tolerant person, and yet I feel uncomfortable with this idea. If that's true of me, could a Star Trek series with a gay character survive?
posted
The issue isn't so much including a gay charachter on the show as much as addressing the issue of homophobia and discrimination possibly in a more veiled form as was often done on the original series. Some minor things showing that gays and lesbians are accepted and not considered aberrant in the 24th century would be nice. Some minor crewmembers holding hands during a crisi perhaps
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PPG Skittles
Ex-Member
posted
Right-o, Deus! *L* That's what happened in the book I quoted. Did no one see my post? Jeri Taylor, co-creator of Star Trek Voyager (so she is definantly a reliable resource of information about Star Trek), wrote Pathways, and included a nice paragraph showing gays are accepted in the 24th century!
An additional note: From the official Star Trek Magazine, October 1999; "['Mosaic' and 'Pathways'] not only offer insights into the characters but, because of who [Jeri] Taylor is, they are the only novels that are considered to be an official part of the STAR TREK history."
------------------ Do you eat your red Prozac pills last?
[This message has been edited by PPG Skittles (edited August 29, 1999).]
posted
Jaresh Inyo hit the nail on the head. The only meaningful way to portray gay characters is to make it obvious (or even blatant). I don't think the producers would want to do that. It's a shame.
Oh, I don't actually think Garak is gay. He acts like he does because of the way he was brought up. He obviously had feelings for Ziyal. Even so, there is no defined proof either way.
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, DS9 'Tears of the Prophets')
posted
No no no! Despite what ST:TM says, Jeri Taylor's books are not really canon. Look at "Gravity", for example, and tell me that's the Tuvok in Pathways. I didn't think so, personally. )Besides, this is the same magazine that says there's a torpedo launcher where the deflector is on the Defiant and that the ship's phasers looks precisely like quantum torpedoes.)
I think most people agree canon is just what's on-screen.
They're the closest thing to canon that there is written, however, right up there with the Encyclopedia. (For example, Neelix's entire backstory was practically used in "Mortal Coil" and "Once Upon a Time".)
And now we should get back to the topic at hand after Elim's obessive rant.
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
[This message has been edited by Elim Garak (edited August 29, 1999).]
posted
Well debating canon, what is and what isn't, can be fun in the way that extracting teeth at home with a pair of pliers and a wooden plank to bite on is fun. Generally we accept that what's on screen in canon even though other shows do accept books as canon too. Because of the glut of Trek novels, most bad or just bizarre like the Omne novels, and the fact that many of them are a step up from fanfic and often a step down that's not practical. Still everything on screen isn't necesarilly canon either. GR said ST5 wasn't canon, is Treshold canon? Next time our heroes go warp 10 do they turn into catfish? Since there's no real offical policy or central creative mind on Trek anymore things are more dangling in the wind and fans often decide for themselves what is and isn't canon. Taylor's novels are a good candidate for being canon, better than most.
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posted
Yes, Pathways - the closest 'book' that should be considered canon - although not canon - although I wouldn't mind Mosaic and Pathways as canon - I really, REALLY enjoyed Pathways... It is a good book. And the thing is - even though Tuvok, Kim, Neelix and Chakotay - are woefully 'undernourished' on Voyager - in Pathways - these were probably the 4 best of the stories!
I didn't think I would like the Tuvok part - but I couldn't put that section down!
Anyways.
Andrew
------------------ "All is full of love, all around you" - Bj�rk
posted
I've only read Pathways, and while it was an enjoyable read, I'm in no hurry to make it canon.
------------------ "Something I can't comprehend. Something so complex and couched in its equation. So dense that light cannot escape from." -- Soul Coughing
posted
Regardless if Pathways is canon or not, it still protrayed two obvious gay characters (very minor, but obvious). But still, I agree. "The only meaningful way to protray gay characters is to make it obvious (or even blatant)." And I think ALL the movies are all canon, because they include them in Star Trek Chronology, which HAS TO BE canon, because it lists and explains all the episodes, and has short biographies on the characters. And you know, regardless of ya'll think or say, I still say Pathways and Mosaic are canon. They are written by Jeri Taylor for heavens sake! And you know, she didn't write that by herself or from scratch.
quote:When Taylor sat down to write, she wasn't starting with a completely blank page. She, Rick Berman, and Michael Piller had established a few basic details about the characters' histories when they created STAR TREK: VOYAGER, but there still some important gaps.
She wrote from canon (but then again, most people do that anyway), and since she practically wrote with other producers, it has to be canon. Besides! I think it's neat knowing Tuvok once knew the meaning of life and all things.
------------------ Do you eat your red Prozac pills last?
posted
Actually, the pseudo-mysticism added to Tuvok's backstory is the main reason I don't want the book to be canon. It contradicts most of what we know about Vulcans.
------------------ "Something I can't comprehend. Something so complex and couched in its equation. So dense that light cannot escape from." -- Soul Coughing
posted
The Jeri Taylor books are not canon, simply because only the TV shows and films are canon. Writers for future episodes and movies will generally only need to be consistent with previous episodes and movies, not books, no matter whom they're written by. Plus, Taylor gives the name of Chakotay's ship as "Liberator," when a draft of the script for "Parallax" calls it "Zola"; she thus couldn't be deriving all her information from a supreme source of potentially-canon info.
------------------ Frank's Home Page, which you've never seen before and want to visit right now
posted
TPTB have said that none of the books are canon, although, part of Janeways story, from Mosaic, was used in a episode of Voyager.
Canon is what ever Berman and company say it is, and they have gone as far as saying they don't consider TOS canon, which is the base of a lot of my problems with them. They would rather rewrite the story, instead of working with the original story.
------------------ Outside of a dog, a book is a mans best friend. Inside of a dog, it's to dark to read. Groucho Marx
Despite what ST:TM says, Jeri Taylor's books are not really canon. Look at "Gravity", for example, and tell me that's the Tuvok in Pathways. I didn't think so, personally. )Besides, this is the same magazine that says there's a torpedo launcher where the deflector is on the Defiant and that the ship's phasers looks precisely like quantum torpedoes.) 
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