posted
Just rewatched parts of the episode. Picard actually says "greetings from the United Federation of Planets". So Ramatis is not member of the UFP. Guess I have to remove it from my list then
But it would mean that Therin, the Star Charts and the Magazine were all wrong.
posted
So, Rivas belongs to the ruling family of a non-Federation planet but is a Federation negotiator? Do they just sort of bring him in when he is needed? Harry, what did it say about his work regarding Fed-Klingon Treaties?
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posted
The Star Charts support many UFP memberships that I don't really believe in. The Klaestron, for example...
Ramatis certainly shouldn't be a UFP member in the 2360s. It is also somewhat questionable whether Trill should. "Actively participating in the UFP society" doesn't sound like a sufficient criterion when we hear of actively participating Klingons as well.
posted
Harry, can you confirm the encyclopedia entry that Riva helped negotiate Klingon-Fed treaties? My only source is the on-line script (from the "Publishing old scripts thread), which can't be trusted. (I thought that Riva's chorus got killed in the episode. The script has a translation device being damaged.) Riker also says (stupidly, as usual): "You mean, the most respected negotiator in the Federation -- is deaf? Amazing."
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quote:Originally posted by Harry: So Ramatis is not member of the UFP. Guess I have to remove it from my list then
But it would mean that Therin, the Star Charts and the Magazine were all wrong.
Well, Star Charts does take into account everything that happened up to Nemesis, so it's possible they may have joined after "Loud as a Whisper".
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quote:Originally posted by Masao: Can you confirm the encyclopedia entry that Riva helped negotiate Klingon-Fed treaties?
Not from the Encyclopedia but it was also mentioned in Voyager "Alliances" that the Klingon Empire allied itself with the Federation after negotiations between Ambassadors Riva, Sarek, and Kobry (presumably the Klingon delegate) after the treaty was proposed by Ambassador Spock.
The websites I checked listed 2339, 2346, and indeterminate as the time that this treaty occurred. 2346 makes more sense then 2339 because it comes after the Enterprise-C was destroyed which made the Klingons admire the Federation and consider an alliance.
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Picard: "The two sides of a bitter planetary conflict have petitioned Starfleet to transport to their world a mediator they have mutually selected. Our orders are transportation only -- no interference."
Picard: "They wanted the best. That, according to all reports, is Riva"
Riker: "Our job is not to police the galaxy" ('Our' being Starfleet's)
Next follows a rather awkard scene in which Troi insists Worf is feeling uncomfortable. So much for privacy.. Anyway:
Picard: "Rive negotiated several treaties between the Klingons and the Federation"
Worf: "Before him, there was no Klingon word for 'peacemaker'"
And, of course, by Picard: "Greetings from the United Federation of Planets"
Riva to Troi: "You are empathic?" (Not familiar with Betazoids?)
However, Riva knows about Earth's house of Hannover... But the crew know absolutely nothing about Ramatis and Riva.
Perhaps interesting to know too is that Riva was asked to mediate a 15 centuries long planetary war between two Solari factions (of Solais V).
You could of course have Klingon-Federation treaties being negotiated by both Riva and Trill negotiators.
posted
Considering how difficult it's been to keep certain peace processes going even WITH outside mediators (*COUGH*israel*COUGH*palestine*COUGH*), the idea of Riva and the Trill (as non-members) mediating the Khitomer Accords does seem like a tempting idea.
However, I just remembered a scene from DS9's "Blood Oath" -- Jadzia recounted how Curzon and Kang were the two chief negotiators at the Korvat Colony, a few years before Khitomer. (It's placed around 2289 in the Chronology.) Kang was making a long-winded speech about the glory of the Empire or something like that, and Curzon walked out on him.
I find it extremely unlikely that the neutral mediator would have walked out of such negotiations. Therefore, the Trill must be ruled out, and are almost definitely already Federation members by this point.
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quote:Harry, can you confirm the encyclopedia entry that Riva helped negotiate Klingon-Fed treaties? My only source is the on-line script (from the "Publishing old scripts thread), which can't be trusted. (I thought that Riva's chorus got killed in the episode. The script has a translation device being damaged.) Riker also says (stupidly, as usual): "You mean, the most respected negotiator in the Federation -- is deaf? Amazing."
That line is also in the Companion CDROM script, was it in the actual episode, or was the line later dropped?
quote:I find it extremely unlikely that the neutral mediator would have walked out of such negotiations. Therefore, the Trill must be ruled out, and are almost definitely already Federation members by this point.
I don't know Curzon was something of a rogue, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he'd use that tactic, even if he were supposedly a neutral mediator.
posted
Negotiating with Klingons is probably a lot less 'talky' than negotiating with humans. I can only guess at the number of Klingon Ambassadors and aides being killed at such negotiations
Walking out of a Klingon's long winded speech could be very helpful in showing how couragous you are by defying some high-ranking Klingon bureacrat. Or it could get you killed in a rather nasty way.
posted
Bit Kris, that's my point... the way Dax and Kang described the situation, the whole meeting was basically between the two of them as the two primary negotiators.
Therefore, the Trill weren't neutral at the time of Khitomer, but Federation members.
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