posted
Just watched the rerun of "Legacy" on G4. I had some questions & thought we could have a good-natured debate. Anyway...
1. The silly little line about Picard meeting Tasha when Tasha's ship came to someone's rescue, "as had mine" (Picard's quote). Apparently this small portion of dialogue had later caused quite a bit of confusion when it was contradicted by "All Good Things..." and to further complicate matters, people started looking into this line as proof that Picard had a "missing" ship command between the Stargazer and the Enterprise-D.
The thing is, at the time of the episode, the writers clearly meant the "as had mine" line to refer to the Ent-D. However, since it was later contradicted, I'm not saying that people are wrong to think JLP had another ship. It's just that he never said ONE WORD about this mystery vessel, yet blabbered all the time about the Stargazer. Also, the "NCC-7100" printed on the ready-room Stargazer model DOES NOT mean that it was the mystery ship, IMHO. I mean, c'mon, TWO Constellation class ship commands?
It's my opinion that to make logical sense of the line, Picard probably meant that he happened to be aboard a ship, perhaps as an observer until getting his new command, and said ship happened to meet Tasha's ship. He never said he was captain of the ship after all.
2. The Turkana colonists constantly refer to their weapons as "phasers" and that they are all of older design. The movie-style phasers are clearly seen to prove this, but they also carry weapons that look similar to the Klingon "pain-sticks." (Sorry, wish I had screencaps to show...Lee?) Are these supposed to be the equivalent of movie-era phaser rifles?
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
1. I think we've all wondered what Picard was doing between the loss of the Stargazer and his command of the Enterprise. I think it was a fairly good chunk of time. I don't see any reason why he couldn't have had starship commands ... he could be sentimental about the Stargazer because it was his first command, and one he feels guilt about (the circumstances surrounding her loss).
Regardless or what he did after being aquitted at his court-martial and gaining command of Enterprise, I agree that he was most likely on a starship -- as a passenger -- when the disaster happened. I think he probably abreviated some of the story for Tasha's sister.
2. Maybe they're privately-manufactured phasers, intended for civilian -- rather than military -- purchasers.
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: The thing is, at the time of the episode, the writers clearly meant the "as had mine" line to refer to the Ent-D.
Nuh-uh. Because in the same conversation, a sentence or two later, he says "I knew then that I wanted her on my next command" (or some such). Thus, the writers either intended it to be a Stargazer reference, and didn't realize at the time the problem with the time-frame involved, or else some other ship commanded or ridden in by JLP. But not the E-D.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Picard may have served as a trainer for starfleet or as an admiral's liason officer (Hnason's?) for a while...probbaly while Enterprise was finishing trials and testing.
Possibly even overseeing a refit schedule on the ageing Constilation class (though that might have proved traumatic).
We've also seen specialists from all branches of the fleet show up as experts on specific missions- mabye Picard was on some diplomatic gig between ships.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Redacted on account of I misread a comment. Only I don't have anything to put in here instead. Don't we know how many years there were between the destruction of the Stargazer and "Encounter at Farpoint"?
Registered: Mar 1999
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It's never made clear- presumably a few though, for Picard to have so completely blocked out the details.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Heh... I tried to tackle this problem with my very first post on this forum...
Whatever Picard did, it was apparently something so remarkable that it gave him the command of Starfleet flagship, despite the fact that he spent previous 20 years as the captain of old, underpowered vessel
(My theory is that he was busy getting on the first name basis with as many admirals as he could )
-------------------- "Do I remember about my amnesia?"
Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Kazeite: (My theory is that he was busy getting on the first name basis with as many admirals as he could )
Picard did seem to be on friendly terms with a lot of the brass, didn't he? :-) Perhaps he got a staff assignment at Starfleet Headquarters for a while after the Stargazer incident. I mean, even though he was cleared of any wrongdoing the fact remains he was court-martialed for loss of a ship: that might have counted against him for a while in terms of commands being assigned.
It is quite a meteoric rise though...from captain of a rather undistinguished old ship to commanding the biggest, best and most celebrated ship in the Federation. If the encyclopedia is right and there is an 8 year gap and if he didn't have another ship in the meantime, he's got to have done something to get his name noticed.
After all Starfleet is a very competitive environment: Hansen was worried that Riker was going to look like he was standing still in BoBW and wanted Picard to kick him into a captain's chair before he was overtaken by the next generation of command-level officers coming up the ranks. No reason why that wouldn't have been the same in Picard's pre-Enterprise days.
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Isn't it claimed in "Measure of a Man" that Starfleet holds a court-martial or a court of inquiry after any ship is lost, as a matter of procedure? I think that's real naval policy, even, in many navies, though I can find only a brief Wikipedia reference to back me up.
But anyway the investigation wouldn't count against him, or rather wouldn't count against him any more than losing a ship in the first place did.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Sol System: But anyway the investigation wouldn't count against him, or rather wouldn't count against him any more than losing a ship in the first place did.
I think you're right - the court martial cleared him of any wrongdoing, but he still lost the ship and I think that would stay in the minds of people at command for a while. This might account for his 8 year gap between Stargazer and Enterprise: perhaps he was working his way back up the list of Captains until he was assigned a ship again?
We have seen evidence that Starfleet keeps a close eye on its personnel and can even "blacklist" someone and essentially bar them from ever getting a command of their own: doesn't Sisko inform Worf of something to that effect after he destroyed a decloaking Klingon transport full of civilians? (for once the "episode title" circuit in my brain has failed me, sorry) I am sure there is a line in that episode that runs along the lines of "Basically this means you'll not have a command of your own in the future."
Okay so Picard wasn't barred, but maybe he had to work a little after the loss of his ship...get back a little trust, a little backing from Starfleet Command? What do you think?
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I thought the line about Worf never getting a command came in that ep where he abandoned an attempt to rescue a Cardassian defector in favour of saving Jadzia. . ?
For some reason the DVD caps I have, courtesy of TrekPulse, aren't very good. They might as well have been taken off a VHS copy! So much so that I don't even really recall identifying the colonists' weapons. I'll have a look tonight.
quote:Originally posted by Lee: I thought the line about Worf never getting a command came in that ep where he abandoned an attempt to rescue a Cardassian defector in favour of saving Jadzia. . ?
You're quite right: it comes from an episode called "Change of Heart". Sorry about that - for some reason the one with the Klingon transport ("Rules of Engagement") is the one that is stuck in my head.
Sisko does say that the incident with the defector will be entered in Worf's permanent record and even if he won't go through a court-martial (because it was a secret mission) he wouldn't get a command of his own...which points to Starfleet having a long memory for people who screw up.
Registered: Nov 2004
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