posted
It's reasonable to assume that Riker would have stayed Captain of the Ent-D if they didn't retrieve Picard in "TBoBW pII". Remember that alternate reality in "Parallels"?
Didn't Tuvok start the series as Full Lt and is now Lt Cmdr?
It seems unlikely that Data will be promoted to Full Cmdr if he remains on the Enterprise. Also, I always thought it was weird that the Ent-A had two officers with the rank of Captain (Kirk and Spock). Shouldn't one of them been given another ship?
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
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posted
Do try to keep up, Nimmychops. Dax already mentioned Spock. 8)
I think the example of the TOS crew at the end of their run is one reason why they're reluctant to promote people on Voyager. You had three captains and three Commanders on the E-A. . . mind you, look at Picard and Co: One captain, one captain (battlefield promotion, reverted to previous rank by choice alone, it seems), two (three) Commanders, three Lt. Commanders (two of whom started out as Lt's JG, the other being Data who's still unpromoted).
posted
The Enterprise-D had a good excuse for being full of people of overtly high rank - it was the Flagship of the Federation, after all. But we have no indication that the E-E is such a flagship, which is why it's good we already got rid of Lt.Cmdr Worf. We have seen that other large ships do quite nicely with a Lt.Cmdr as the first officer. And if Picard finally gets off the ship and Riker gets the fourth pip, then Data could get full Commander rank and everybody would be happy.
Tuvok's little dance from Lt.Cmdr to Lt. to Lt.Cmdr, and Tom Paris' steady downward glide from Lt. to Ensign are minor problems that could be considered plot points instead of errors, while Kim's inability to gain a promotion is really annoying. It's obvious that the high-ranking bridge crew should not be promoted any further so as not to mix up the chain of command, but Kim is forced to act as a department head in a ship where plenty of his underlings outrank him. Making Kim at least Lt. (j.g.) would help clarify the command relations a lot.
The First One
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posted
Well, let's look at Voyager: One captain (who should really be a Commander given the size of the ship, two Lt. Commanders (Chakotay IS one, remember); One Lt (or Lt. JG, I can't remember - we're talking about Torres here, who would want to look closely at her?) and two Ensigns.
That's the main cast. Roll Call gives the following list:
Captain: Janeway Commander: Chakotay (incorrect - he is a Lt. Cdr) Lieutenant Commander: Tuvok Lieutenants: Ayala, Baxter, Carey, Hargrove, Nicoletti, Rollins, Torres. (note no distinction between Full and Junior Grade) Ensigns: Ashmore, Baytart, Bristow, Brooks, Culhane, Gallagher, Golwat, Harper, Hickman, Jurot, Kaplan, Kim, Kyoto, Lang, McCormick, Molina, Mulcahy, Murphy, Paris, Parsons, Powell, Ryson, Sharr, Tabor, Vorik, Wildman.
So I think there IS room for promotion there.
The Tuvok thing is difficult to explain. It was never established in dialogue that he was demoted - his third pip just vanished at about that time. Plus, he had them on the wrong way round in terms of black to one side and silver on the the other.
posted
Tuvok: I believe he wore two and a half for the whole first season. It was a production mistake. He was supposed to be a full Lt. until his promotion awhile back.
Paris and Torres: I think they were both always supposed to be JG's. Torres commented once that they were the same rank.
Kim definately needs a promotion. I'd be ready to mutiny.
Data: Should be promoted to Commander, but remember Eddington's line in DS9, "You don't get to sit in the captain's chair wearing a gold uniform." Evidently, security/ engineering officers don't get promoted past Lt. Comm very often.
Janeway: There's no precedent (that wasn't a mistake) for any one with a rank of less than Captain being given permanent command of a starship that I can remember. Size in this case just doesn't matter. :-)
Although, the size of the ship would make the fact that it is full of low ranking officers and crewmen (and Ensigns as dept heads) more plausible.
posted
TFO: I forgot about how Troi and Crusher are Cmdrs. The fact that they are medical officers tends to overshadow their high command rank, though.
Isn't Chakotay's rank Full Cmdr?
Aban: Torres and Tom were both JG Lt. In one episode (I think it was "Faces") Tom said to Torres that he outranked her. This might be due to seniority, or his command position, or that she's Maquis, or something.
Keep in mind that Sisko was only Cmdr when he got the Defiant.
If anything, sappy Kim deserves a promotion.
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
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posted
Chakotay wears a Lt. Cdr. Maquis pin, or he does according to the Encyclopedia's chart. But bear in mind that:
a) We haven't and can't see any Maquis pics higher than his. b) The Encyclopaedia is notoriously sh*te at things like this - see some of the mistakes in Starfleet rank insignia. . .
Chakotay has only ever been called a Commander, but then there are two ways of mentioning the rank:
1. Casual - "as you were, Commander." 2. Formal - "this is my first officer, Lieutenant Commander Spock."
Note that Spock WAS a Lt. Cdr in the first season of TOS. . . he had the rank insignia, and I'm fairly certain Kirk did refer to his full rank on more than one occasion.
posted
I think I left out another deserve-to-have-a-promotion officer: Dr. Bashir. I think he's been a lieutenant since the beginning of the show. I was really happy that Nog got promoted to lieutenant jr. It scares me sometimes to think that Nog outrank chief O'brain...lol
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The First One
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Member # 35
posted
Exactly. And I think - but like I say I'm not sure - Torres has one black and one gold. We've probably never even seen two black bars. . .
The whole thing always seemed a bit stupid anyway. They've always tried to play down differences between the two crews, so why give them a separate insignia system? No doubt so that, if they HAD done more than two episodes about tension between the two crews, then you'd at least be able to tell them apart.
posted
Dax: I'd forgotten about Sisko and the Defiant. However, I would argue that that was a special situation. He probably should've been promoted then and there.
As for Nog's myriad promotions, did he ever actually graduate from the Academy? All I remember is that they made him an Ensign before a big battle. I always thought it was a temporary rank or something. And even if he did, he made Lt. JG in like under a year. WAY too fast.
posted
Chokotays situation seems to be similar to Tuvoks during the first couple seasons. He wears the insignia for one rank, but is constantly referred to as another (Tuvok was always called Lt. before his promotion, regardless of his LT CMDrs pips). True the casual address for a Lt. CMDR is just plain old commander but I know there have been examples of late of situations where his full rank should have been said and he was still called CMDR. Unfortunately I cannot remember a specific example.
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