posted
Now, I don't want to go and make the DS9 comparison again, but...hows this different from what they did to DS9? Y'know, the series that everyone apparently loves?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
We love it because it had great stories, great acting and a grown-up premise. ...whereas later Trek shows had to resort to "lowest common denomenator" gimmics: Borg females in skintight outfits and high heels? Decontamination in a sauna with the science officer's nipples poking out? Not exactly te same caliber of Trek as DS9 IMHO.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote: Or maybe the reason DS9 and B5 were so successful
Which timeline would this be, again?
There are plenty of valid complaints one could level against Enterprise, and all of them (and more) have been. But "Rick Berman does not get Star Trek" is simply nonsense, if your definition of Star Trek includes anything other than TOS. (And for some, it doesn't, and good job to those people, what with their principle-y stick-to-itivness.)
Even if Enterprise enjoyed the support among the fans (and more importantly among the casual fans) that TNG did, I suspect we'd hear the same kind of talk from Berman. This is not a good year at all for shows featuring people with bumpy heads or spaceships. Even Joss Whedon is talking about new directions, in an effort to save Angel from the chopping block.
Registered: Mar 1999
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"What about the fans that actually put a lot of work into making, say, a SF uniform from the actual materials used?"
They're even bigger asocial dorks than the ones in the crappy Klingon costumes?
"Borg females in skintight outfits and high heels? Decontamination in a sauna with the science officer's nipples poking out? "Not exactly te same caliber of Trek as DS9 IMHO."
Not to defend VOY or ENT over DS9 or anything, but DS9 did suggest that you can throw a rock in the mirror universe w/o hitting at least three male-fantasy-lesbians.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I am agreeing a lot with both sides here, and being that I am not quite up to your levels here yet, I just would like to add that I think that if they go the way of the Klingon more than 3 eps. a season then I will be seriously disappointed with this series.
I, thus far, have liked it, but if they even tease us with taking us any further with the Borg or Klingons than what we see by the end of this season, I will seriously be sick. As much as they have intrigued me in the past I am sick of them.
Are they afraid of using the Romulans after the Nemesis Bomb they dropped this winter? Are they afraid to continue to go on an original tangent like they have with the Andorians? Are they afraid to go into some new old aliens we've seen in "Journey to Babel", et. al.?
I'm afraid of what there is to come judging by what they have been dangling in front of us as of late.
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Registered: Jan 2003
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"Are they afraid of using the Romulans after the Nemesis Bomb they dropped this winter?"
Well the thing about that is, this movie was hyped as Romulan movie. It was NOT a Romulan movie. We SAW some Romulans. Some died - but we had no real Romulan dialogue or meaty stuff.
It was a movie that dealt with a cheesed of orphan clone and his band of freaky misfits.
Really another "Alien of the Week" movie - except they tried to say that Remans were a big part of the whole picture. Nup, they weren't.
If we wanted a "Romulan" movie - we would have had something akin to the Romulan shows on TNG - "The Enemy", "Unification", "Face of the Enemy", "The Next Phase" etc.
Frankly the movie could have used Klingons in place of Romulans.
Does anyone remember the movie rumours for Insurrection... and that it was to involve Romulans and that Picard was really a clone or some sorta crap? Something fishy there... Maybe John Logan had previously pitched for a Trek movie?
And back to Enterprise. It's not about Rick Berman doesn't know Trek - he's just going to totally change the direction of Enterprise after Two years of investment and storylines and character building.
DS9 had Klingons but it's mission still stayed the same, infact it was a logical step, after meeting the Dominion, and the events of Improbable Cause/The Dies is Cast.
Voyager was basically a new show every season. Voyager should have stuck to its guns and stayed true to "The Caretaker". By "Parturition" it was a very different show.
I agree - no more KLINGONS.
Oh and the Klingons will attack Earth because the writers/producers know nothing about anything that happened in DS9 or what Martok said.
Andrew
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
quote:Does anyone remember the movie rumours for Insurrection... and that it was to involve Romulans and that Picard was really a clone or some sorta crap
As far as I understand it the orignal script for Insurrection (known as Stardust) dealt with a rogue starfleet commander, a friend of Picards from thier acadmey days, attacking the Romulans. At the end Picard would have destroyed Data as he would have been involved in the plot.
quote:Oh and the Klingons will attack Earth because the writers/producers know nothing about anything that happened in DS9 or what Martok said.
Maybe. Sussman knows about DS9 so with luck he'll be one of the writers. Of course with more luck then we are going to get, this may signal some forward planing regrading the series and it all may be a set up for tying the TCW and BOTF arcs together.
Registered: May 2001
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quote:Originally posted by AndrewR: If we wanted a "Romulan" movie - we would have had something akin to the Romulan shows on TNG - "The Enemy", "Unification", "Face of the Enemy", "The Next Phase" etc.
Oh yes, when they come up with the Friends titles for "The Next Phase", everyone will call it "The one with the Romulans in trouble", and not, say, "The one where Geordi and Ro become pass-through and stuff".
And "Unification"? The episode that, frankly, was just a teeny, tiny bit shit?
quote:DS9 had Klingons but it's mission still stayed the same, infact it was a logical step, after meeting the Dominion, and the events of Improbable Cause/The Dies is Cast.
I'm not quite sure you've got cause and effect the right way around here. The writers didn't write up to the end of season 3 and think "Hmm, we have a big enemy, so let's drastically change things". They got into season 2, and thought "Hmm, we need to spice things up, so let's bring in a big enemy. And a cool little warship." They weren't forced to adapt to the Dominion. The Dominion WAS them adapting.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
1. The Next Phase mightn't have been the best example as yes, it did focus more on Geordi and Ro - but it had some quintissential Romulan moments... i.e. the Science officer accepting the Enterprise's help and then ordering that feed-back be sent back to the Enterprise resulting in its destruction. The other episodes mentioned - including Unifications specifically dealt with Romulans and the Romulan way. I suppose The Mind's Eye could be included. Nemesis had Romulans - but didn't do anything with them - it mainly dealt with Remans - so that's why it was a misnomer for all those people to go "Oh this next one is a ROMULAN movie."
We see more about Klingons in TMP than we really do about Romulans in Nemesis!
And I wasn't talking about the Dominion - I was talking about the Klingons. The Dominion had seeds in very early season 2 and grew ever since. We still had everything else that had been established in season 1.
Then they brought in the Klingons AS WELL. They didn't really need to - although it was good - and it did stay with the flow of the series - i.e. the Klingons were bound to get caught up in the paranoia of the Dominion eventually.
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
I do think that the "forshadowing" of the Dominion in season 2 of DS9 is perceived as being a lot bigger and more well planned than it actually was. From memory, we got a comment in "Rules of Aquisition" that said that you "had to do business with the Dominion", and then a comment in "Sanctuary" about the Dominion conquoring a planet. That's it.
Just because they got mentions before they were used doesn't mean that they weren't a "shake-them-up, change the show" sort of race. Before hand, the show was about Bajor, trying to get it to join the Federation, strange new aliens visiting the station and causing a bit of a pulava. Having the most powerful race since the Borg turn up and start blowing things up was definitely a massive shake up, and a distict alteration from the original premise.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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