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In the TOS the Commodores always had that muti color star where the comm badge is now, I think Commodore is just a temp position for when theres alot of people of the same rank and they need to choose a leader for example the recent Equinox Episodes of VOY , Janeway said that in a situation where 2 or more SF ships have lost their Commander are in position where they cant speak to Sf Command the Captain of the Ship with Tactical Superiourity is given command of the fleet maybe Commodore is a position given to that Captain with tactical Superiority.
------------------ "Marge .. Do you have other men in this House ? .. Radioactive men?" ~Homer "The Simpsons"
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Marc: In TOS, rank was indicated by stripes on the sleeves. I don't think any reason has been given for any of the uniform color changes. Remember that the TWOK uniforms had their own departmental colors that are completely different than those seen in TOS or TNG/DS9/VOY, too.
IP: Logged
posted
Well, remember that DS9 wasn't exactly a plum assignment. In fact, it was a bit of a shit-hole, populated by fresh-faced academy graduates, and drunken Irishmen.
Now, the station did become more important with the wormhole, but by that time the Bajorans had acccepted Sisko as their emmisary. It would have been hard to remove him. However, as he notched up successes, and with the discovery of the dominion, they deceided to keep him there and promote him. It's likely that if he had done an appalling job commanding the station for the first few years, eh would have been replaced, emmissary or not, with the importance of the dominion, by an Admiral.
------------------ "Sorry Wendy, I just can't trust something that bleeds for five days and doesn't die."
posted
Also noteworthy is that there already WAS a starbase in the area, namely SB 375. Admirals Rollman and later Ross were probably controlling all sorts of Starfleet activities in the region from there. That facility was most likely much better equipped to support starships (DS9 at best probably could give a starship crew some coffee - everything else was flowing from the ships to the station).
Perhaps Rollman and later Ross were "sector commanders" in charge of the Bajor sector, and one flag officer was sufficient for that entire sector even though there may have been several Starfleet ships and installations in the area. And just like flagships with an admiral aboard probably have separate captains, with the admiral just a "passenger", these starbases probably have captains or commanders of their own in command, letting the admiral command the entire sector, or an entire fleet of starships.
One might assume that there were unseen captains in command of the Bellerophon when Ross was aboard, in command of SB375 when Ross was there, and in command of those ships and installations even when Ross was elsewhere. Conversely, there probably was an unseen admiral aboard the huge starbase 74 in TNG "11001001", but the commanding officer of the station was a mere commander by rank.
DS9 would thus normally easily make do with a commander or a captain in charge, but would with minor effort be converted to a base of operations for General Martok in charge of the 9th Fleet, and would temporarily also serve as a base for admiral Ross. DS3 mentioned in "Interface", with an admiral Holt aboard, probably also had a captain or commander in charge of the station affairs and Holt performing flag duties.
------------------ "The Earl of Sandwich invented the sandwich. Samuel Morse invented the Morse Code. Plato invented the plate." -Holly, Red Dwarf: "Parallel Universe"
posted
Nechayev seemed to roam the length of the Cardassian Demilitarized Zone ("Journey's End", "Preemptive Strike", "The Maquis", also spotted in "Descent"). Either she was in command of that specific sector, or of a fleet tasked with patrolling that sector.
Since Nechayev operated concurrently with Rollman/Ross, one might say that the DMZ spans several sectors and Nechayev commanded one that did not include Bajor, but did include parts of the Badlands and the Maquis movement. She only visited DS9 when the Maquis affair spilled over to that sector (and possibly walked over Rollman there?). Admiral Kennelly is another of those flag folks mentioned directly in connection with the Cardassian affair ("Ensign Ro"), as is Adm. Chekote ("The Siege"). IIRC, all are three-pippers, that is, Vice Admirals by rank. Or was Kennelly a two-pipper?
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Actually, In "The Search, part 2" Nechayev showed up in the hallucination the Vorta gave the crew members and Sisko fully believed it. Perhaps Nechayev outranks some of the other Admirals we've seen involved in the Bajor area.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
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(Final Chapter Spoilers are pretty much moot today, but I'll warn you anyway. There are Final Chapter Spoilers ahead. There.)
I've always had the pet theory that "Fleet Admiral" was in fact not a rank, but more of a position analagous to "Staff Sergeant" in a small police dept. Presumably rotated through the masses of senior Vice-Admirals and Admirals, positions as Fleet Admirals would mean a job overseeing a general region of the Federation encompassing several dozen sectors, kinda like Supreme Allied Commander in Europe vs. Supreme Allied Commander in the Pacific, to draw on WWII/Cold War metaphor. At a guess, the UFP might have about a dozen Fleet Admirals or so; one for the Cardassian frontier, one for the Romulan end of things, one for the inner core, etc. Nechayev, who held that actual rank of Vice Admiral, got the job of Fleet Admiral responsible for the Cardassian/Bajoran/Badlands/DMZ region sometime after Descent and presumably remained there for a few years at least.
Similarly, Nakamura(?), the Admiral in AGT... was called Fleet Admiral in AGT.. while wearing a four-pip rank, IIRC, and seemed to be in charge of the Neutral Zone. He had appeared once or twice before then and wasn't given the same treatment.
In "Redemption, Part II" we got Fleet Admiral Shanthi (who wore Vice Admiral pips), apparently running the Klingon and/or Romulan area and pretty much able to authorize a full military blockade without much trouble.
The point has come up that Vice Admiral Ross seemed to have a rather inordinate amount of power over the whole allied war effort in the latter stages of the Dominion War. Perhaps at this point he was holding the Fleet Admiral position for that neck of the woods, and because it was one of the hotter fronts in the war (as well as the site of the eventual invasion) he ended up being quite the head honcho in the grand scheme of things.
Of course, the real reason we see so many damn Vice Admirals is because the costume dept. apparently has no shortage of triple pips but only a few pairs of fours and twos. A letter-writing campaign to Bob Blackman is in order, perhaps?
------------------ The above post was mulled-over, composed, and posted during time Tom would have better spent on his plethora of homework and homework-related exercises. Now don't you feel special?
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To follow up on The Tom's latest comment, it has always annoyed me that there are so few one pip flag officers (whatever you wish to call them). If one were to look in the United States Code (sorry I couldn't find it online right this second), you will notice it states in the military law section that no more than 50% of all flag officers in a branch of service may be of a rank higher than one star. If this dictate were to to be followed only half-way by Trek we would have seen far fewer multi-pipped officers. Again, as The Tom said, it is probably the constuming department's obsession with making every actor look as dramatic and important as possible, although in my opinion they have overkilled so much as to make it look foolish to make a less-than-two-pipped person.
------------------ "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
posted
Well, considering we've never, ever, seen a one-pip flag officer, it stands to reason that it just doesn't exist. IMHO, though, we should see more two-pips that we currently do.
------------------ The above post was mulled-over, composed, and posted during time Tom would have better spent on his plethora of homework and homework-related exercises. Now don't you feel special?
posted
Uh... We've also never seen most ranks of enlisted crew. Are you going to say the only ones that really exist are SCPO and "crewman"?
It wouldn't make any sense to start counting admirals at two stars and skip over one. If they did that, they'd make all the bi-pippers into mono-pippers, all the triples into duals, and all the Big Fours into Little Threes.
------------------ "The Earl of Sandwich invented the sandwich. Samuel Morse invented the Morse Code. Plato invented the plate." -Holly, Red Dwarf: "Parallel Universe"
posted
I'm all with Tom in saying that Fleet Admiral in TNG is a position, not a rank. But I'd drop the position down one prestige notch, from future "CinCLant" or "SACEur" to simple "Admiral in command of one Fleet". We have seen the commanders of various Fleets (3rd, 9th, one other in the same room in "Favor the Bold"!). They have consistently worn the three pips of Vice Admiral, an apt flag rank for the commander of a fleet.
Nechayev could have been in command of 8th Fleet, tasked with defending the Cardassian border region during TNG and also sending ships like the Agamemnon to hunt the Borg in "Descent". The 9th Fleet would also move in the region, so sometimes Ross or his predecessor would be present instead of Nechayev. Starbase 375, a smallish and perhaps poorly equipped outpost, would serve as the temporary HQ of the Fleet in the region, while the 9th Fleet would appropriate DS9 for similar use.
The commander of the Fleet present in a certain region would be the top diplomat and Fed representative, explaining the appearances of Ross and Nechayev in crucial conferences instead of any of the Earth big wigs or four-pippers. Rollman could be the predecessor to Ross, and admirals Colti or Whatley from "Rapture" could have inherited the 8th from Nechayev, or headed other fleets (or then ceremonies of a planet joining the Federation require desk pilots from Earth while peace negotiations and the like do not).
posted
Actually, do we have any evidence that Starfleet was organized by fleets outside of wartime? I mean the Ent D was never attatched to a fleet and I don't recall the term ever being mentioned during TNG.
I like the Tom's idea of Fleet Admiral being a position. It makes perfect sense. Didn't Admiral Frog-in-his-throat from Insurrection have only two pips? This would make perfect sence due to the fact that he was only in charge of a single planetary operation that might only involve a few ships and an outpost, not an entire fleet of ships.
------------------ "A gathering of Angels appeared above my head. They sang to me this song of hope, and this is what they said..." -Styx
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