posted
Now we all know how Spock figures out that there's a Klingon BoP that's capable of firing while cloaked. But I'll repeat it anyway.
Someone fired on the Klingons. The Enterprise did not fire on the Klingons. The Klingons did not fire on themselves. Therefore, a third ship must have fired on the Klingons. No third ship was detected. Thus, an undetected third ship fired on the Klingons. Thus, a ship that can fire while cloaked.
Brilliant deduction, and a good job on the part of the writer to set that up. But here's my question: why did Spock automatically assume that it was a KLINGON ship? I probably would have guessed that the Romulans were up to something. Perhaps there was something going on with the Rommies that we've never heard about?
------------------ Pilot: You're sure they were Americans, eh? Fraser: They were all wearing new boots, they were driving a Jeep Wrangler, and they carried big guns. Pilot: Americans it is. - "due South"
posted
Good question. The Rommies would benefit as much as anyone else from a war between the Feds and Klingons. My only guess is Spock was talking with the Romulans even then and knew they weren't plotting anything. Hard to believe that though.
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posted
Perhaps, for some reason, the Romulans were not using cloaks at that time. Some sort of treaty, or something. Which isn't to say they mightn't do it anyway, but Spock still would have immediately guessed Klingons, since they would be the only power using cloaks at the time, to his knowledge.
------------------ "You're basically killing each other to see who's got the better imaginary friend." -Yasir Arafat on religious wars
posted
For that matter, why did not Spock assume one of three choices?
a) Klingons b) Romulans c) Federation
Of course, it does make logical sense for Spock to assume the Klingons above the other two options: he'd been in contact with the Chancellor, and the Chancellor probably kept him informed on the backlash to the proposed peace treaty ... so it would sorta make sense he might think Klingons right off the bat ...
Or at least, enough to make them the prime suspect among the possible alternatives.
Another possibility: the Enterprise and Quo'nos 1's rendezvous point was kept very secret, and was in fact coordinated between the two ships, so NO ONE else knew where they would be meeting ... and that would cut the Rommies right out of the equation.
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posted
Another possibility: Spock used the information he had gained from sensor readings and viewscreen replay hints to determine that the attack matched the known "tech parameters" of a Klingon BoP. For all we know, the neutrino surge was something only Klingon ships of BoP class would display when cloaked. Romulan ships would leak myons, and Fed cloaks based on Romulan hardware would do the same.
What was clear was that there was a cloaked ship doing the firing. Also, 1) the ship was firing Federation torpedoes and 2) it was obviously the source of the leaking neutrinos. The first fact wouldn't rule out anybody, since of course Klingons and Romulans would have a reason to imitate Fed torps. The second fact could be the decisive one.
Also possibly 3) the ship *wasn't* detected by sensor X or scanner Y, ruling out certain larger or "noisier" ship types like Klingon battlecruisers or heavy dreadnoughts. Thus, the direct leap to Klingon BoP specifically.
posted
The cloaked BoP fired fed-torps on Kronos, but then fired green torps in the end of the movie, right? Kinda cool, with the launcher being modifiable...
------------------ So, how's that Survivor-contest coming along, Newt? -Well not very well at the MOMENT, everyone seems to have died. -Gee, that's bad. Those Aliens bugging you yet? -Not really, they mostly come at night mostly...
posted
Actually I think at the time the Romulans and the Federation were friendly... Ambassador Nunclus... I'm sure they were Romulans in the Council Chambers in Star Trek: IV - they were the Women who looked like Vulcan's but who nodded when the Klingon Ambassador demanded that Kirk be properly dealt with. They - I assume weren't Vulcan ambassadors, since that was Sarek's job.
Andrew
------------------ "I threw bitter tears at the ocean But all that came back was the tide..." 'I Will Not Forget You' Sarah McLachlan
posted
Er, wasn't Ambassador Nuclus (or whatever) in on the conspiracy? If he was, I'm betting other Romulans were, and that it wouldn't have been that hard to get a cloaked Romulan Bird of Prey out there.
About the larger ships: at that point in the Trek timeline, the only ships that had ever cloaked had been the Birds of Prey (Klingon and Romulan). I'd bet that the larger Klingon Cruisers couldn't cloak, or at least couldn't cload as of TMP, otherwise they'd have used it to escape V'ger.
Y'know, maybe if the Enterprise and Kronos 1 had actually been warping to Earth, instead of crawling there on Impulse, the BOP wouldn't have got off such as easy shot...
------------------ "If every vampire who said he was at the Crucifixion was actually there it would've been like Woodstock. I was at Woodstock. I fed off a flower person and I spent six hours watching my hand move." - Spike, BtVS
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
Did the Rommies have warp capability at the time? TOS said that they had sublight ships, so assuming that they have very limited warp capability, it would have been very difficult to intercept the two ships at the right time. Except when they were at impulse.
Also, be reminded that it was Valeris that suggested that it was a Klingon BOP. And Valeris was also a traitor.
Liam: The TNG tech manual states that the Enterprise-D can be pulled from warp for any reason whatsoever. Translation, ships are at warp only when they need to, to conserve fuel and stuff. That may have been the thing with the Enterprise-A and Kronos 1. After all, they warped to the rendezvous point.
------------------ "My Name is Elmer Fudd, Millionaire. I own a Mansion and a Yacht." Psychiatrist: "Again."
[This message has been edited by Tahna Los (edited October 26, 2000).]
posted
Well, saving fuel is kinda pointless when it's gonna take you a few centuries to get where you're goin' otherwise.
Valeris didn't actually say that it was a Klingon ship. She said "A bird-of-prey." Rommies have those, too. IIRC, everyone just automatically assumed that it was a Klingon BoP. "Why would they assasinate their own chancellor," and such.
------------------ Pilot: You're sure they were Americans, eh? Fraser: They were all wearing new boots, they were driving a Jeep Wrangler, and they carried big guns. Pilot: Americans it is. - "due South"
posted
Maybe, at this time, transporting at warp speeds wasn't possible yet, or still wasn't very "safe", so the two ships were at impulse while the Klingon staff dined on the Enterprise?
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posted
Transporting at warp speeds isn't portrayed as a very smart idea in "modern" times either.
I'd agree with the suggestion that the assumption was that no one but the Klingons and the Federation would know the location of the meeting. Now, we later learn that elements of the Romulan Empire were in on it too, but no one knew that at the time.
From the tech point of view, big ships *were* known to have a cloaking capability at that date. After all, we saw the Klingon/Romulan battlecruisers cloak in TOS "The Enterprise Incident". So if Spock/Chekov could immediately deduce that it was not just a Klingon ship, but a Klingon *BoP* specifically, then there's good reason to believe that they reached this conclusion based on "tech evidence" (e.g. what the cloakship was emitting and what it wasn't, and what weapons it used, etc.). So first they would deduce that it was a BoP, and only then they would go "Of course, this means that the assassins must be Klingons".
From the political point of view, Romulans were quite obviously buddy-buddy with the Feds at this time. Still, this shouldn't have stopped Spock from holding them as the prime suspects, since the crime was obviously aimed at igniting a Fed-Klingon war and Romulans would be the ones to benefit from that.
So apparently, there was another, stronger reason to suspect the Klingons themselves. Whether it was this tech thing (that is, the crew could immediately identify the assailant as a Klingon BoP because of some tech telltales) or perhaps inside info (e.g. Gorkon had told Spock that an assassination attempt by his kinsmen was imminent) or something else... I vote for the tech evidence theory.
posted
Excuse me, but the conclusion was that it was a Bird of Prey, right? I cannot remember that there was said that it was a Klingon BoP, just a Bop. Don't the Romulans have BoP's as well?
Also, I still believe BoP is a general name for a small scout/attack ship with a cloak.
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