I don't mind someone writing about what the Enterprise was doing during the war, but they should at least make it a good story and not the boring wretch which was the Dominion Wars. It's not so much that I mind Pocket Books trying to answer some of these questions, it's just that I wish they'd get some fresh-blood into the program (or at least some people who can write a book and get the characters correct and not bore people half to death).
John Vornholt used to be one of my favorite authors. I loved Masks, Contamination, War Drums... and then he just went right down the tube with Rogue Saucer and he's been going down farther with each new book he "writes."
Q? Haven't we seen enough of Q? What's so good about books about Q? He shows up, torments the crew, and leaves. Wow. And no, I'm not saying the days of early TOS books were that great, but Trek's novel hey-day is long past, and that quality from then is rare and far between (thankfully, Diane Carey still seems to be one of the few Trek-authors whose quality has only grown). Frankly, the only half-way interesting novel series is the Excalibur series by Peter David, which is a bit of a fluke for him to write good Trek books -- lord knows he's messed up every other Trek novel by totally mangaling the characters and relying on sarcasm and humor to get the reader through instead of a plot*.
In short, although Pocket Books sure has a lot of interesting premise books coming out, a novel's success is not just based on it's premise, but on it's execution, and I think Pocket Books has been lacking. Hopefully they'll breathe some new life into the books, but overall, they've been lacking for quite some time now ...
Honestly. Some people see "Star Trek" written on something and assume it means good quality. Yeeesh.
*With the exception of his Excalibur- series, because he's musing ostly his own characters, and as all his work shows, Peter David does a hell of a lot better writing for his own characters than for other people's. Also, anything that came out of his imagination and not based on Trek (Howling Mad, anyone?) is also super-fantastic, but again, because they're his own characters
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 25, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 25, 2001).]
posted
*reads JeffK's post, cries, and then runs off to marry his copy of Vendetta*
"I like to read real books that aren't about television shows"
You also like to listen to bands that no-one's ever heard of. Doesn't make you right, Simon my lad.
------------------ You know, when Comedy Central asked us to do a Thanksgiving episode, the first thought that went through my mind was, "Boy, I'd like to have sex with Jennifer Aniston." -Trey Parker, co-creator of South Park
------------------ "Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."
-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.
posted
I would humbly ask the person who doesn't like Peter David's non-New Frontier books to elucidate a bit more. I love Imzadi. I, Q is a darned good read. Q Squared does parallel universes and time travel better than DS9 or Voyager. I find his representations of existing characters to be closer to the mark than many other authors can manage (Grounded springs to mind -- *yick*). Sure he makes up details from time to time where there weren't any supplied by the shows, and often when the shows get around to it, they contradict him. That's to be expected, and I don't fault him for that.
When it comes to other authors, Diane Carey is a damn good storyteller. She just needs someone who knows the timeline, physics, and practices of the universe to edit what she comes up with... Daffyd ab Hugh is really good. Diane Duane and John Ford kick literary butt. The Reeves-Stevens couple I classify with Peter David -- they're hacks, but they're good ones. *shrug* Basically, I give everything a once-over when it comes out, but I tend to stay with a few authors I know to be good at their craft. That said, I was REALLY impressed with A Stitch in Time.
And lastly, to touch on the topic of this thread...
There are so many things TPTB could have done to smooth the problem of the Klingon foreheads, but they ended up taking the absolute WORST route. The DC graphic novel "Debt of Honor" used one of the common fandom explanations -- that there are two (or more) visibly distinct races of Klingon, one with smooth foreheads, and one with bumpy. Said graphic novel deals in part with the bumpy-heads gaining ascendany in the high council and the smooth-heads being racially discommoded. And Kor was trying to reverse the situation.
The other route they could have taken they even set up for in Star Trek VI. Notice Chang has very subdued, almost vestigial, forehead ridges. Note also the similarity of Chang's and Kang's names. Wouldn't it have been so easy to portray Kang, Kor, and Koloth with similar "barely-there" ridges in "Blood Oath" and not create this problem in the first place? *sigh*
--Jonah
"And everybody wants prosthetic foreheads for their real heads..."
-- They Might Be Giants, "We Want A Rock"
------------------ "It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
quote:I would humbly ask the person who doesn't like Peter David's non-New Frontier books to elucidate a bit more. I love Imzadi. I, Q is a darned good read. Q Squared does parallel universes and time travel better than DS9 or Voyager. I find his representations of existing characters to be closer to the mark than many other authors can manage (Grounded springs to mind -- *yick*). Sure he makes up details from time to time where there weren't any supplied by the shows, and often when the shows get around to it, they contradict him. That's to be expected, and I don't fault him for that.
I don't mind about making up details, every novel winds up doing that (in Power Hungry, enemy ships fly off at Warp 11) and then later being contradicted. That doesn't bother me. But Peter David's work is always best when he's using character's he has created (read Howling Mad if you don't believe me). Read Exiles or War Drums or even Sanctuary for good characterizations of the TNG and TOS crew -- Peter David's books fall short, with each of our known and loved characters being different shades of the extremely sarcastic person David actually is. I haven't read Grounded Springs, but if it's like Rogue Saucer or some of the other dreck, it's one of the reasons I have stopped reading Trek novels. Go read some of TNG's earlier stuff (obviously, too early and none of the writers' have the characterizations correct, which is why Strike Zone is the best of his TNG books). Read Exiles for an excellent characterization of TNG's cast (so good, even Gene Roddenberry contributed a liner note -- something no other author has recieved). Perchance to Dream, also by Howard Weinstein, is just as good. Michael Jan Friedman's early stuff -- Reunion, for one -- also nails the characters excellently. And the characters he creates for the old Stargazer crew are remarkeably unique.
Granted, Peter David is hardly the worst of the writers. His books are generally entertaining, but honestly, there's only so much of the Q I like -- time for him to tend new fields, which is what he's doing quite well with his New Frontier stuff, IMHO. The only characterization David has hit square on the nose is Odo from The Siege -- and that's just because Odo's already bitter and sarcastic.
Imzadi is only bearable in the future timeline, where I can imagine Riker being saracastic and bitter. The "present" timeline story totally misread Riker's characterization. And, no, Riker identifying himself as "William Tiberius Riker" didn't bother me, even after Second Chances. Troi was portrayed as a "space slut", which I didn't agree with (although, in the first season she certainly did dress like one). I didn't agree with future Data's behavior as a whacko-assassin in either timeline, but this being set in the future, that characterization was fine by me.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 26, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 26, 2001).]
posted
I can't figure out how to do italics, but the book I was referring to was "Grounded" by David Bischoff. I struggled with it up until page forty-something. None of the characters "sounded" right. But then the thing that just made me put the book down without even finishing the SENTENCE I was on was when Picard went down to the main shuttlebay to meet a returning shuttle (I think the E was out of communication, and he was concerned) and the sentence started something like "It was agony for Picard to wait outside the bay while the doors closed and the huge space repressurized --" and that's when I threw it down in disgust.
This was novel #25, published in or around TNG's 5th season, I think. The TNG tech manual had been out for some time, not to mention what simply WATCHING THE SHOW would have demonstrated about 24th century shuttle ops... *yeesh*
--Jonah
------------------ "It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
posted
And as for the other things, Troi WAS a "space-slut" for a lot of TNG (remember "The Price"? Remember "Masterpiece Society"? Remember "Man of the People"?). Riker WAS getting increasingly bland as the series progressed. Data WAS (prior to the emotion chip) even more of a protocol stickler than Saavik (remember Wes and Geordi talking about that in "The Most Toys"?).
As for sarcasm, what show were YOU watching?
Q: "I'm as frail and as mortal as all of you. What do I have to do to convince you people?!"
WORF: "Die."
Q: "Oh, VERY clever, Worf... Eat any good books lately?"
That's one of the best-known, but there are plenty of other examples throughout TNG's run. Granted, the most glaring examples are when Q shows up, but hey...
--Jonah
P.S. And it was THELONIOUS, not Tiberius.
------------------ "It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
Actually, IIRC, it was William Thelonius Riker in one of his early books, then in Imzadi, written AFTER Second Chances, it became William Thomas Thelonius Riker. Bet he hates filling in forms.
Data: Captain, I would like some advice on women.
Picard: Of course Data. When I have any, I'll let you know.
(or something like that).
------------------ You know, when Comedy Central asked us to do a Thanksgiving episode, the first thought that went through my mind was, "Boy, I'd like to have sex with Jennifer Aniston." -Trey Parker, co-creator of South Park
posted
A little sarcasm, yes. But as far as Peter David's Trek books are concerned, every character is a shade of the level of Odo's bitting sarcasm. Sorry. That turns a book off a lot more than somebody goofing about whether or not someone can stand in a shuttlebay with the door open.
Look, no one's denying that Peter David's a good writer. Just that his Trek stuff is very very bad -- he gets the characters wrong. Look, you don't like what I'm saying, tough. You ever read any of his non-Trek stuff? Then you'll see what he's capable of when he has free-reign. It's brilliant. His Star Trek work is, however, sadly below that.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 8.32 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with seven eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001
------------------ "Instructed by history and reflection, Julian was persuaded that, if the diseases of the body may sometimes be cured by salutary violence, neither steel nor fire can eradicate the erroneous opinions of the mind."
-Edward Gibbons, The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire.
posted
I've read his Babylon 5 stuff, as well as the PsiMan series he wrote under the feeble pseudonym of "David Peters". He readily admits he's a hack writer, but I happen to think he's a rather good hack writer. I suppose we'll just have to shake hands and (gods, I hate this term) agree to disagree.
--Jonah
------------------ "It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
posted
I don't WANT the Trek books to Tie up loose ends... how desparate for story ideas are they!?!
Then all the idiots and freaks will be running around saying that it said in this book that this is what happened to Lwaxana and this is why Klingons have ridges, and then moronic writers for Trek magazines like the Fact Files will read some comment like this on the net, and then write it in the Fact Files, and then more and more begin to think its true... etc. etc. etc.
------------------ Homer: I'm gonna miss Springfield. This town's been awfully good to us. Bart: No, it hasn't, Dad. That's why we're leaving. Homer: Oh, yeah. [pokes his head out the window] So long, Stinktown!
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