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» Flare Sci-Fi Forums » Community » Other Television Shows » q: was the 1701 the first enterprise in starfleet? (Page 2)

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Author Topic: q: was the 1701 the first enterprise in starfleet?
Sol System
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Um...she was trying to establish just what universe she was in at the time. It seems like a reasonable question to me.
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Aban Rune
Former ascended being
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In that episode Crusher was being extremely basic with the computer trying to go step by step and figure out what the problem with the universe was. Basically, she was talking like a 7 year old at that point.

Of course she knows that there were other Enterprises before hers. However...and this is a good point...The fact that the Ent D has a D on the end doen't mean there have been only 5 enterprises in Starfleet or the Federation...it only means that there have been 4 before it with the registry of 1701. It's the fact that the plaque says "5th starship to bear the name" that throws a curve in it.

I'm with the reasoning above...Earth Starfleet will be absorbed into the Federation Starfleet and presently doesn't have anything to do with that future organization.

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Omega
Some other beginning's end
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Dedication plaques aren't canon. Otherwise, we'd have to accept the existence of an Admiral Roddenberry who had held that rank for nearly a century.

And remember, the computer that she was talking to was in a universe based solely on her mind. It's quite possible that if she didn't know of an earlier Enterprise, then the "computer" wouldn't have told her of any such ship.

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"This is why you people think I'm so unknowable. You don't listen!"
- God, "God, the Devil and Bob"


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The Red Admiral
Admiral on Deck....
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Although Siegfried you procede mainly from assumption I more or less agree. One issue which has indeed bugged me recently (Other than the Akiraprise of course) is will there be any mention of UESPA in Enterprise?

I like the idea of post Federation interests being represented by a unique domestically operated agency, such as UESPA. One thing is for absolute certain, the Pre-E must either be destroyed, decommissioned or integrated into a purely non-Starfleet/Federation role by 2161. We must all surely agree on that. And for some reason it will be another 80-some years before another ship named Enterprise is commissioned.

Another bothersome issue is that darned wall display in TMP, which shows all other ships named Enterprise. And we all know this by now, but is there a working theory to explain our way round this? (perhaps they should release the special edition with an inserted graphic showing the Akiraprise)...

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"To the Enterprise and the Stargazer. Old girlfriends we'll never meet again." - Scotty

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PsyLiam
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"Another bothersome issue is that darned wall display in TMP, which shows all other ships named Enterprise. "

No it doesn't. It missed the space shuttle for one (or the carrier), and at least one other (I can't remember for the life of me. Is it the old schooner?)


"And we all know this by now, but is there a working theory to explain our way round this? (perhaps they should release the special edition with an inserted graphic showing the Akiraprise)..."

The obvious way around it is not to change anything, because it doesn't show all the previous ships named Enterprise. Even Decker only says "All those ships were called Enterprise", not "This is every Enterprise that has ever existed. EVER!"

Regarding UESPA: Considering that UESPA was mentioned, IIRC, twice in the whole original series run, and seemed to stand for exactly what Starfleet stood for, I highly doubt it will be mentioned. I say we stick it in the same hole as the "Lithium crystal" thing, and pretend we misheard it. But then, I like the easy option.

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Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.


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The Red Admiral
Admiral on Deck....
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PsyLiam: The display does indeed show the prototype Space Shuttle Enterprise. That was the whole point of the wall display, it's mounteed boldly right in the middle. NASA honoured Star Trek by naming their prototype shuttle Enterprise, and Trek's tip of the hat was to display it here on this wall display.

I have screen caps if you want to see it....

"The obvious way around it is not to change anything, because it doesn't show all the previous ships named Enterprise. Even Decker only says "All those ships were called Enterprise", not "This is every Enterprise that has ever existed. EVER!"

Granted, but in reality you'd expect them to show the first Starfleet ship named Enterprise, which from what we can gather will have an important and exciting role to play over the next seven years.

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"To the Enterprise and the Stargazer. Old girlfriends we'll never meet again." - Scotty

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PsyLiam
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Ah. My bad. I'm sure there's a ship missing though. Is there?

"Granted, but in reality you'd expect them to show the first Starfleet ship named Enterprise, which from what we can gather will have an important and exciting role to play over the next seven years."

You'd also expect whoever did the wall sculptures of the Enterprise-B and C in the observation lounge to make them actually look like the ships did.

It's not a huge deal, really.

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Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.


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Veers
You first
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Oooooo...Pics.
Can you post them, Red Admiral?

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Meh

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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
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"Granted, but in reality you'd expect them to show the first Starfleet ship named Enterprise..."

They did. Not to mention that the display itself was onboard the first Starfleet ship named Enterprise.

Unless you mean the first one to be part of anything called "Starfleet", in which case they would have to check out every civilization in the universe to determine who was first to use a term that could be translated "star-fleet".


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Malnurtured Snay
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Don't be so hard on her. Considering the events that were going on around her at the time, she was exploring all options.

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Siegfried
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I still don't really see the need to for the Enterprise (NX-01) to be digitally added into the picture shrine. I'm perfectly happy with the portraits of the shuttle, carrier, hoop-ship, and the original configuration of the NCC-1701. Plus, you have to realize that the shrine omits a large number of the ships named Enterprise anyway. Maybe it was just the interior decorator's preference to use those four particular portraits. Or maybe the shrine changed pictures every forty-seven minutes or so.

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The philosopher's stone. Those who possess it are no longer bound by the laws of equivalent exchange in alchemy. They gain without sacrifice and create without equal exchange. We searched for it, and we found it.

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The Mighty Monkey of Mim
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Yeah, we can always say that the displays were graphics that could be changed interactively. The pics we saw were just what the last user had left up.

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The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.

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OnToMars
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"This just occured to me - does this mean that the Pre-E is fated to be destroyed by 2161?"

This is something that I wrote quite quickly - if it oversteps the bounds of this thread then by all means remove it, but I figure it's acceptably short.

===============

He turned the model over in his hand, inspecting the details.
"So this is the new Galaxy-class starship, huh?"
"Just about. ASDB's still working out a few details, but that, my friend is the starship for the next century.
"Does it really have to be this big?"
The older engineer looked at his colleague with a mix of disdain and amusement.
"You're an idiot, you know that?" His own response was of mock anger, which quickly faded to a bemused smile that matched the other's.
The elder continued, "They decided that volume was more important than the best possible profile. And they still managed to achieve a damn good maximum warp.
"But it could be even faster if the profile was more streamlined."
"And keep the same volume?" It was a challenge to the younger engineer's impetuousness who, rather miraculously, was actually left speechless for a few seconds.
"I bet you…" He paused trying to think of something to bet. "I bet you we could." The other engineer regarded him for a moment, debating whether to carry on the conversation or not.
"Well, its too late now." He said finally. "They've already started building the prototype."
He had given up arguing the point, and went back to inspecting the model. He noticed something interesting about the model. "Hey, you realize that this model says Enterprise on it? NCC-1701…D."
"Yeah, they're going to make one of the Galaxy's into the next Enterprise."
"Which one?"
"Second or third probably. Depends on how well the prototype works."
"How much you want to bet that this one's going to be destroyed by Klingons too?"
The older engineer rolled his eyes, to which the younger man continued more forcefully
"Four Starfleet starships all named Enterprise. All destroyed by Klingons."
"Now that's not true. The C was destroyed by Romulans."
"But she was defending Klingons. Klingons were involved anyway. Don't tell me its any coincidence. And wasn't Earth Fleet Enterprise destroyed by Klingons too?"
"Beats the hell out of me. I'm too rusty on my pre-Federation history."
"If I were the captain of the Big E-D, I'd run at the first sign of a Klingon ship."
"And that, my friend, is exactly why you are not a starship captain."

========

BTW: Just before I posted this, I changed 'UESPA' to 'Earthfleet' in the story because of the teaser. My supposition is that after Fed Starfleet was created the Earth Stafleet became generally known as the Earth fleet to avoid confusion.

[ August 11, 2001: Message edited by: Stingray ]



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If God didn't want us to fly, he wouldn't have given us Bernoulli's Principle.

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The Vorlon
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Yep, I have also realized that little factoid about the Klingons. Only problem is that the fate of the E-B is unknown... The common fan-inspired idea is that it was destroyed at the Tomed Incident in 2311, but there's no proof of that either. It just fits for giving the E-C a good life prior to 2344.

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Sheridan: "Well, as answers go, short, to the point, utterly useless and totally consistant with what I've come to expect from a Vorlon..."
Kosh: "Good."
Sheridan: "I REALLY hate it when you do that..."
Kosh: "Good."

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OnToMars
Now on to the making of films!
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Ya, both the A and B are canonically unknown. But I really like Shatner's novels and so I personally factor them into my view of the universe which means the A was destroyed by Klingon. And then there's the B which I just took the liberty of speculating for the sake of the story. Besides, it would be neat if there was some sort of 'Enterprise Curse' about being blown up Klingons.

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If God didn't want us to fly, he wouldn't have given us Bernoulli's Principle.

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