I ask because I'm making a web page discussing these problems. Although I am overall pro-Enterprise, I am indending an objective look at them. Some of them I expect to find explanations for, some of them I expect to be the result of preconceptions, and plenty I expect to be genuine problems... however, I can only think of a few examples offhand, while other people have suggested there are far more. I can't work with what I don't yet know!

However, I can summarize what the complaints against Enterprise have been so far. The general list of complaints seems to be these:

• Klingon first contact happening prior to 2218
• Klingon forehead appearance being bumpy
• Enterprise design being "too advanced" for the 22nd Century
• Starfleet being in existence in prior to 2161
• A primitive prototype transporter system in operation prior to 2209.
• A Vulcan serving as an observer on a Starfleet vessel prior to Spock
• The Suliban and Phlox being prominent alien cultures that were never seen/mentioned in TOS, TNG, DS9, or Voyager
• A matter/antimatter reaction assembly being employed for warp drive
• One console on the bridge for flight control instead of a helm and navigation stations
• The use of the familiar Trek hull font on the Enterprise
• The existence of another ship named Enterprise prior to the NCC-1701 that is not the Fandom Declaration-class starliner
• The use of the registry NX-01 and that's not being used by the Dauntless
• Berman and Braga, the Evil Grim Reapers of Continuity, are in charge of the series

I think that's all of them at this point. Let me know if you need any help or anything.

[ August 03, 2001: Message edited by: Siegfried ]

Something that wasn't canon to begin with.

Klingon forehead appearance being bumpy

We don't know the story behind this, so there's no reason to assume it's a problem.

Enterprise design being "too advanced" for the 22nd Century

In some opinions.

Starfleet being in existence in prior to 2161

Again, no statement to this effect, and even if there had been such, it's not the same Starfleet.

A primitive prototype transporter system in operation prior to 2209

Problem being?

A Vulcan serving as an observer on a Starfleet vessel prior to Spock

Again, problem being?

The Suliban and Phlox being prominent alien cultures that were never seen/mentioned in TOS, TNG, DS9, or Voyager

Yet again, problem being?

The Suliban and Phlox being prominent alien cultures that were never seen/mentioned in TOS, TNG, DS9, or Voyager

Further still...

One console on the bridge for flight control instead of a helm and navigation stations

Again...

The use of the familiar Trek hull font on the Enterprise

And yet again...

The existence of another ship named Enterprise prior to the NCC-1701 that is not the Fandom Declaration-class starliner

Give me an exact quote that makes this a problem.

The use of the registry NX-01 and that's not being used by the Dauntless

Again, not a problem, because we have no idea how Starfleet's registry scheme works.

So to sum, there ARE no continuity issues as yet. Have a nice day.

[ August 03, 2001: Message edited by: Omega ]

The main problems that some of the Trek fans (and as far as I can tell, it's primary the hard-core cyberTrekkers) have are that: 1) Berman and Braga are running the show and 2) some of the events and dates in the series are contrary to what others have guessed them to be (most notably, Mike Okuda and his chronologies and encyclopediae). As for the ship design, it goes back to nothing but opinions since we only know of one design from the era (and that in itself leads to issues of whether the design is really the design for the Daedalus. Gotta love the ability of Trekkies to debate ).

[ August 03, 2001: Message edited by: Siegfried ]

"Klingon first contact happening prior to 2218"

Technically, not a problem, but they should have been a little more creative ("We need some aliens." "How about Klingons?" "Yeah, okay."), and they shouldn't have contradicted something that, while not being strictly canon, was pretty much universally accepted.

"Klingon forehead appearance being bumpy"

TNG already established that Klingons were originally bumpy. DS9 established that the smoothness was even more of an obscure period in time than we thought. Basically, if the Klingons were not bumpy, there would have been a problem.

"Enterprise design being 'too advanced' for the 22nd Century"

True. Sets and props might need to look more advanced so it doesn't seem silly, but there was no reason for the exterior of the ship to look like it did.

"Starfleet being in existence in prior to 2161"

John Adams, who was president of the United States of America, was born in 1767. But John Adams, who was president of the United States of America, existed as early as 1735. How can that be? Oh, wait... They're two different people.

"A primitive prototype transporter system in operation prior to 2209."

I wish they hadn't put transporters in. We all know they're going to end up using them as a crutch because they couldn't be bothered to do things differently than before. But, technically, it's not a contradiction.

"A Vulcan serving as an observer on a Starfleet vessel prior to Spock"

This one simply makes no sense at all. When was there ever a mention of Vulcan observers on Earth ship, or lack thereof? I'm willing to say there wasn't.

"The Suliban and Phlox being prominent alien cultures that were never seen/mentioned in TOS, TNG, DS9, or Voyager"

Well, they've done it before. It may suck, but it isn't w/o precedence.

"A matter/antimatter reaction assembly being employed for warp drive"

Nothing even remotely wrong w/ that.

"One console on the bridge for flight control instead of a helm and navigation stations"

Strictly speaking, they shouldn't have done this. It doesn't make sense. Why would it be one job, then get split into two, then go back to one? But, alas, there isn't anything canonically wrong w/ it.

"The use of the familiar Trek hull font on the Enterprise"

*shrug* Haven't they been using the same font since TMP all the say through TNG, DS9, and VOY? Apparently, hull fonts don't change very often...

"The existence of another ship named Enterprise prior to the NCC-1701 that is not the Fandom Declaration-class starliner"

Well, the navies of the United States and the British Empire have already contradicted that pretty well.

"The use of the registry NX-01 and that's not being used by the Dauntless"

Well, "NX-01" is a silly registry for a Federation starship, anyway. But, on an Earth Starfleet ship, they can do whatever they want. I wish they hadn't stolen the "NX" scheme, but oh well.

"Berman and Braga, the Evil Grim Reapers of Continuity, are in charge of the series"

Can't argue there.

[ August 03, 2001: Message edited by: TSN ]

Probably the biggest issue is going to be the overall design of the Enterprise model (as TSN mentioned above). This issue has probably spawned the greatest number of threads.

• The blue warp field grilles on the nacelles
• The "rough" arrangement of the hull plates
• The catamaran style of the ship
• The slanting nature of the nacelle support pylons
• The color of the hull plates
• The shape and placement of the impulse engines and the things on the catamarans that were taken from the P-something something-charger
• The existence of something that looks like it may be shuttle bay doors in the same place as on the Akira class (although supposedly the shuttle pods are dropped from bay)
• The presence of lots of windows
• What looks to be an impulse deflection crystal on the pod
• The notch at the forward part of the saucer and the weird hatches on the sides of the saucer near the bridge superstructure

In "Where No Man Has Gone Before," we're told that the Enterprise's power systems run on lithium. It was this way until an episode or two later when it was switched to dilithium (mainly to avoid scientific accuracy problems). Now then the implication from the show (with backing from the Chronology and Encyclopediae) is that the Enterprise underwent an upgrade early in the show. The nacelles changed, the sensor dish changed, et cetra. The ship then seemed to be a bit more powerful later than in WNMHGB.

So. The Enterprise (NX-01) is likely going to be using dilithium-based systems. The Enterprise (NCC-1701) will originally use a lithium-based system then switch over to dilithium. Herein lies the dilemma. We have a case where we go dilithium --> lithium --> dilithium again. This is bit harder to explain. Lithium could have been an experiment in new power technologies, but then the Enterprise shouldn't have been able to find a lithium cracking station so quickly. And if NX-01 shows the advantages of dilithium, why would the NCC-1701 (a more advanced ship and the seeming workhouse of the 23rd century fleet) use a more primitive system?

A few examples:

• 1. the use of lithium
• 2. the existence of UESPA
• 3. the position of commodore
• 4. the rank structure of the first series
  

As the series matures or decays, depending on the perspective, there may be other elements that the literate fan of the original may notice are lacking or reduced in importance.

I think the intent of the two producers is for this show to replace the original in the minds of the many younger fans. It is a well-reported fact that both men have disdain for the first series. I have never understand the disdain nor the source of the disdain. However, I do think that it exists and it will influence the fifth series.

I have seen people compare this new series, favorably and unfavorably, to Star Wars. The general consensus is that Mr. Lucas did the fourth film in an attempt to cash in on the loyality of the fan. I feel, however, that Mr. Lucas was reliving his childhood fantasies and was giving to his youngest child a playground for the imagination and his ambitions. Mr. Lucas was very attentive to details. The differences that were seen could be explained as the result of different cultures and time periods. There is a very strong continuity between this fourth film and the earlier three films.

The producers of the new series are creating a sequel that incorporates elements of the last three series, in their own words. The first series, and the closest to the time of the fifth series, has been relegated to an hollow honorary status. There will be three admirals named after the chief actors of the first series in the premiere episode.

I think that there could have existed a possibility that the design elements of the first could have been 'modernized'. In the 1960's, there was the Volkswagon beetle. This popular little car was invocative of the decade. Three decades later, the Volkswagon company introduced the new beetle. This beetle, very popular and very common, is a 'modernized' version of the older beetle. I think the same could have occured for the first series. Taking these elements, they could have made educated conjectures about the earlier starships. There is nothing that says that they had to use 1950's designs. They could have, in their mind, created 2150's designs.

I hear an argument that we don't know enough about ship designs. I disagree. There exists in the original series two ship designs of two different periods. The first is the SS Botany Bay of approximately two hundred years before the first series. This ship was 'boxy' with the engines stuck at the very end. There were little or no surface obtrusions. Two centuries later, there is the USS Enterprise NCC-1701. This ship has the engines-nuclear-of the older Bay placed in the saucer. To accomodate the warp engines, which arised after the transport ship left Earth, and to protect the crew, the engineers created a secondary hull with two nacelles attached. A 'neck' connected the primary hull and the secondary hull. Two engineering systems mated together. Like the first ship, the second ship had little or no obtrusions.

So, imagine this. The body of the SS Botany Bay is shortened, the engines joining the living quarters. The construction is enlarged to a circle. Then, at some point, the warp hull is created. This is attached to the first hull.

I have spoken enough. Or did I babble? My apologies.

I see 'Enterprise' as being the last train out of the Star Trek depot. The train will be a tolerably acceptable ride, but will be nothing like the earlier trains that excited us and took us to new heights of our imagination and awe.

[ August 04, 2001: Message edited by: targetemployee ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by targetemployee:

• 3. the position of commodore
• 4. the rank structure of the first series
  

I think the intent of the two producers is for this show to replace the original in the minds of the many younger fans. It is a well-reported fact that both men have disdain for the first series.

---

OK, those first two points are utterly ridiculous. We have evidence they won't have commodores how? And what's this whole "rank structure" business?

It really isn't important at all. Does the change from Lithium to Dilithium change anything? And besides, the reason for changing it originally (Lithium being a real elelment) is still valid.

"2. the existence of UESPA"

Which was mentioned twice and the completely dropped by the original writers once they came up with a better name.

"3. the position of commodore"

Vitally important element that is the very basis of Star Trek.

"4. the rank structure of the first series"

This is mindless. I made a very good point that we can see the evolution of ships in the first series. I, also, made the very good point that the new series is based largely on the last three series.

If you like those series, then you will love this series. If you like all, all four series, then you will be gnawing your teeth and uttering curses to both men? They are not here to pleasure you. They are here to pleasure themselves and their supervisors. We are merely riders on this train.

All aboard! I hope you enjoy the ride, sir or miss.