posted
Balapoel: About your MSD... It can't work as is. The top and bottom of the main hull are Constitution-refit parts, scaled appropriately. Therefore, there should only be five decks above the laminar hull, not six. And an equivalent number below (with or without an occupiable deck structure on the lowest level). The decks are just slightly too squished, vertically. I know about the problem with the windows in the laminar section, so don't point that out. One just has to start with the known quantities -- in this case the E-refit saucer pieces -- and interpolate from there.
As for torpedo capacity... There are quite a few structures that could serve as launchers, but none has ever been definitively identified.
--Jonah
------------------ "It's obvious I'm dealing with a moron..."
posted
Scott fired two torpedoes from their right muzzle, in 1/2 second, so the two muzzles could fire four torpedoes per second IF it was properly loaded, but we all know Starfleet vessels hate to waste ammo.
The Constellation class has two official hardpoints, with two barrels each, making for four launchers. If it could be modified in modern Trek it'd be a formidable gunship, firing eight torpedoes per second, machinegun-rate. the magazines would run short very fast at their current size, but if they really cared they could modify that too.
As I understand it this is the official model of the USS Valkyrie, the wiring is going into her behind at that last pic. You can also see the nice "Transformer"-like toys glued to the bottom of the saucer, one humanoid-looking and one "mech". I don't think they were added in the commercial models released to the public.
------------------ Here lies a toppled god, His turnip not a small one. We did but build his pedestal, A narrow and a tall one.
posted
Huh... Those do indeed look like torpedo launchers. Though the scale seems a bit wrong, and I still think that the nacelle supports are too thin for any real equipment there, aside from power conduits, etc. The "neck" looks even thinner than the one on the Constitution Refit.
This is a palimpset of the Constitution and Constellation in scale, coinciding with with the upper leading edge of the saucer section - therefore in sync. Notice that the upper constellation saucer is not identical with the constitution -hence the extra deck. Second, the Constellation hull is quite a bit thicker than the constitution. All in all, if we consider the decks the same, there are about 16-17 decks in the Constellation saucer section. BTW, isn't Jackill's work wonderfu?. I've done the same superposition with the excelsior, miranda, and oberth. Good stuff, but unfortunately not in similar to the Intrepid with it's huge deck heights. (has anyone compared the Intrepid's height and 15 decks with the Sovereigns height and 24+?)
Here you can see my breakdown of each deck. These cutaways were developed from the FF schematics, the most accurate to date. You can see that the connecting dorsal, while not as large as the constitution, is still large enough to contain rooms as well as conduits. Technically speaking, the pylons are that last deck, the 'wings' leading to the nacelles.
Any thoughts, based on this? Remember, we still have to deal with the basic problem of the early deck heights versus the later (i.e.: constitution, excelsior vs. intrepid and defiant).
Ben
------------------ Bureaucracy destroys initiative. There is little that bureaucrats hate more than innovation, especially innovation that produces better results than the old routines. Improvements always make those at the top of the heap look inept. Who enjoys appearing inept? -A Guide to Trial and Error in Government, Bene Gesserit Archives.
posted
Cool comparison chart. It seems I have to correct the size to 302m.
The bad thing about the Constellation design is that -once again- someone moved the window rows too close to each other. We have the same problem on the Oberth and the Excelsior too. It seems those artists don't like equal spacing because it looks too technical, so they take the freedom to tamper with it.
Anyway, given the corresponding parts of Constellation and Constitution, it would give us four decks in the saucer rim and 11 or 12 altogether, like in Dan's MSD.
------------------ "Species 5618, human. Warp-capable, origin grid 325, physiology inefficient, below average cranium capacity, minimum redundant systems, limited regenerative abilities." Ex Astris Scientia
posted
It still bothers me that the uppermost decks in the FF schematic seem grossly exaggerated. Based on the Valkyrie pic that shows the topside of the ship (Valkyrie1.jpg), the only difference between a Constitution-refit bridge and a Constellation one is that the latter omits the aft airlock/docking port and introduces a circular thingamabob atop the dome. The "fundament" of the bridge is not different, certainly not two decks higher than the Constitution one.
Otherwise, the FF structure seems good to me, even though it's apparently not 100% accurate, either (the shapes of the Constitution-derived impulse decks are not exact, for example). Ben's internal layout makes sense, too.
One thing that might affect this is the official MSD of the Hathaway visible in "Peak Performance" (done in the "Enterprise-B" style, complete with sadly unreadable labels). I've got a fuzzy screencap of it, but my FTP connection is acting up so I can't reach it at the moment (my password has NOT expired, you stupid machine!).
The non-deck-aligned portholes on the saucer rim could be taken as an indication that a special compartment similar to the two-storey rec deck of the Constitutions encircles the whole primary hull. Given the multitude of shuttlebays and cargo bays on the rim, this wouldn't be all that impossible to believe.
posted
Umm, forget about that MSD screencap I advertised. It's way too fuzzy to be of use. And I think it's off-focus throughout the episode. Anybody have a decent 'cap of it?
posted
Timo: if you have that screencap, I'd like to see it, even if it's fuzzy.
I think we need to evaluate something. (1) if we agree that the constitution decks (per Jackill) are accurate; (2) if we agree that the size comparison is accurate (per Jackil);
Then, there are 16 decks in the Constellation saucer (because the deck heights are identical between the two ships). Add to that the 'decks' in the connecting dorsal and ventral, that leaves 28 (12 more). Someone mentioned 15 decks or so in an earlier post. This jives with the evidence cited above. Sure those other decks are quite small, but they are still decks. And regarding windows, this hypothesis does have the added benefit of fitting the model windows perfectly.
Ben
------------------ Ripley: When we throw the switches, how long before the ship blows? Parker: Ten minutes. Ripley: No bullshit? Parker: If we ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space.
posted
If you guys are interested, I could post a comparison between the schem we know and love (Jackill's) and the FF/MAG version. There are quite a few differences, but the overall outer hull outlines are remarkably consistent. It's amazing what Erik was able to do without access to the original model.
Ben
------------------ Ripley: When we throw the switches, how long before the ship blows? Parker: Ten minutes. Ripley: No bullshit? Parker: If we ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space.
posted
I'll tell if somebody tells me how to use this flareupload thingy. It's been told and retold numerous times in the recent past, but I can't find a single one of those references just now.
Anyway, to get the Fact Files, you have to move across the Atlantic, since they are only to be found in Europe. Please take with you all the ST Magazines you can carry, since they appear to be superior publications to these Fact Files... And are in turn not available here.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** "The candidate who slimed John McCain in the primaries and smeared Al Gore in the general election is now the president who pledges to elevate the nation's tone and bring civility to our discorse. Kind of like Michael Corleone brought peace to the mob by killing the heads of the other four families." --Paul Begala, Is Our Children Learning?
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 07, 2001).]
It's been told and retold numerous times in the recent past, but I can't find a single one of those references just now.
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