posted
What possible explanation could there be, that these ship classes are still in use? The Constitution only lasted for about 50 years. How could the Excelsior class, based on the same engeneering principles as the refit Constitution class, have an opperational lifetime twice as long? The Bird of Prey is a contemporary of the Excelsior. It's design could not possibly accomadate new innovations. Why keep it, and also produce lots of them?
posted
The easy answer is, of course, that when TNG premiered, those were the only models TPTB had access to at the time, so they used them (along with the Reliant, Grissom, and the K'Tinga models).
It was only years after the show began that they were popular enough & had money enough to start building newer models.
------------------ Lisa: "Don't you remember the story of Oedipus?" Homer: "Maybe five dollars will refresh my memory." Lisa (angrily): "Oedipus was the story of a man who kills his father and marries his mother!" Homer: "Uggh! Who pays for that wedding?"
posted
The Excelsior-Class was built to last longer. Look at the Galaxy-Class -- an operational lifeline of a century! Also, production of the Excelsior-Class may well have continued for several decades, so the ships of that class we see in TNG weren't built until decades after Star Trek VI. You also left out the Oberth-Class, which is still in service, and the Miranda-Class.
Most probably, the Constitution-Class was stopped production at some point prior to the TOS movies. When Starfleet began running low on Constitution-Class ships, they decided to retire the -Class in favor of current designs still in production. That is just a theory.
But honestly, if employing design-upgrades (the TNG Hood could be Excelsior-Variant XII for all we know, in terms of interior layout, warp engines, etc.), refits, etcetra, the basic class design of any starship could continue for a very long time. And with a large an area as the United Federation of Planets has to protect and explore, it makes sense to employ only those ships which can last for the longest possible time.
Klingons have several classes of "birds of prey" -- in Generations, Worf identifies Lursa and B'tor's BOP as an "older class" with a defective plasma coil -- this tends to hint that although the BOPs share a common hull, they are constantly being redesigned and uprated. Also, we saw in Redemption that Klingon military forces are controlled by powerful "families": they might not choose to discard an old ship still capable of fighting even if it hits the century mark.
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 13, 2001).]
posted
The Excelsior class was probably built to last longer. The Constitution/refit was a defective design which was later replaced by the Excelsior class. The Miranda class was probably just well liked by Starfleet to discard. If you can upgrade a ship then why replace it? If exploration was all that the Oberth did then why do you need all the fancy new warp drives and weapons?
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posted
Well, the Oberth would still be in need of upgrades. Swap out the sensor pods underneath, maybe retrofit the interior spaces to make them more convenient ...
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** And homeschooling also turns you into a socially well-adjusted person, capable of talking to people without them wanting to ram a f***ing chair down your throat! - PsyLiam, 3/11/01
posted
The Constitution was a defective design? Are you talking about the class of ship that lasted for half a century? (I'd say that's pretty impressive. Of course, you could argue that the refit design was defective, but the original design? Pah!)
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posted
I would imagine that the Constitution-Class was designed with only a fifty-year operational life-span. Starfleet then retired the class in favor of newer ships with a longer operational lifespan.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** And homeschooling also turns you into a socially well-adjusted person, capable of talking to people without them wanting to ram a f***ing chair down your throat! - PsyLiam, 3/11/01
posted
Well -- you left out the Excelsior and Constellation-Classes, crobato.
Although, I'd imagine the Constellation-Class was retired in early TNG ... we saw Stargazer, a derlict, in The Battle; Victory in Elementary, Dear Data; and Hathaway, a retired ship, in Peak Performance.
Anyway, it would be my guess that the Constellation-Class was retired at about that time.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** And homeschooling also turns you into a socially well-adjusted person, capable of talking to people without them wanting to ram a f***ing chair down your throat! - PsyLiam, 3/11/01
posted
The Constitution/refit a defective design? Yeah, thats a good joke. The reason we didn't see but one shot of a Constitution-refit hull (BOBW), was that the ship design was far too recognizable. It's use would have overshadowed the series that it was used in (TNG, DS9, VOY). That class is too typecast as Kirk's ship. The studio minature is now on permanent display at the Franklin Mint. There was Constitution-refit wreckage in the debris field in Best of Both Worlds II. Starfleet was pulling ships out of mothballs in that one!
Now for a Star Trek reason why the Constitution-refit class was canceled:
The original Constitution class ships numbered perhaps fifteen or so by the end of Kirk's first 5 yr mission. It is likely that several of the destroyed ships were replaced (Constellation, Defiant, Intrepid, Ecalibur) and the ships that were heavily damaged were likely repaired (Lexington, Hood, Potmepkin, Exeter).
Initially it makes sense that the orig ships would be refitted after the Enterprise had proven the design in testing. With the aggressivness of the Klingons and Romulans in TOS, Starfleet would likely have increased their fleet. Smaller, faster, specailized ships would be developed to help the Constitution-refits insure the security of the Federation. This would lead to the development of ships like the Miranda class and the scout ships (mentioned in ST:TMP). Also it would lead to research on the feasibility of much larger ships, the Excelsior class.
So, during the refit era of the Constitution class (2269 to the 2290's or so), there would undoubtably be some new construction of these, but we would also see lots of Mirands, possibly in several configurations (research, destroyers, light cruisers, ect). Mirandas are likely much less expensive and less time consuming to build than Constitution-refits. And although they are not their equal in combat(thats why Kahn had to attack the Enterprise when her shields were down, otherwise he had no chance) or in a general purpose role, they could be tailored for specific roles or missions and likely be better for that niche. For example, a Miranda set up soley for research is probably a better science vessel than the Enterprise since the E has to be a mulitpurpose (science, combat, diplomatic, rescue, ect) vessel. The same logic would follow for other specialized ships. Imagaine a Miranda "Heavy Destroyer" giving up its research and VIP facilities for additional weapons, power, and shielding to counter the Klingon K'Tinga's. It would probably be a pretty tough little ship.
So we have increased prodution of specialized hulls that are easier to build and deploy than the Constitutions. This would lead to drydocks with no room for Constitution-refits. Add to this the increase in friction with the Klingons during the 23 years between ST:TMP and ST:VI and Starfleet would definitly want an increase in fleet size. The quickest way to get ships out is to build smaller, more specialized hulls. I am sure the Constitution-refit fleet would get some new construction ships during the last thirty years of the 23rd century, but not as many as the smaller, mission-specific classes would get.
And then, by 2290, the Excelsior has completed her trial runs and her design is a success. By the time of ST:VI, there are probably several Excelsior class hulls in drydock. Indeed, the Enterprise herself was going to be decommissioned because...............the Enterprise-B was due to launch six months after ST:VI and they needed the "Enterprise" name. Evidently the Enterprise was put into mothballs after being decommissioned since Scotty mentioned that in Relics. Perhaps maybe she was converted into a fleet museum since the most legendary Captain of them all was her commmander. So with Excelsior class hulls being laid down in the late 2280's and early 2290's, one could assume that any unstarted Constitution-refit contracts would be cancelled and current ships under construction would be the last ones built.
So perhaps this (or something like it) was the reason for the lack of Const-refit hulls in the latter 24th century. Or maybe its just that Berman/Braga just don't give a rat's backside about continuity. Certainly appears so with Voyager.
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Constitution - 50 year life span Constellation - 75 Excelsior 75-100 Galaxy 100+
------------------ "Yar, a lesbian? That girl had a sex drive! First, Data in Naked Now, then, in Hide and Q, she hits on Picard! "Oh, if only you weren't the captain..." God! If Denise Crosby hadn't left the series, she'd've slept with the entire senior staff by now!" Jeff Kardde - March 7, 2001
posted
Who says the Constitution only had a fifty year life span? Just because the Enterprise was retired in the mid-2290s doesn't mean that all the Constitutions were. For all we know the last Constitution was retired in the 2350s.
posted
To me, whether or not the Ent-A was the last of her kind in service depends on whether or not they built any "Enterprise-class" ships from scratch or not. It's perfectly feasible that Starfleet only refit the remaining Constitutions and never bothered building any fresh ones with the new design. That way, all the remaining few ships could easily have been destroyed or decommissioned by 2293. Of course, we'll probably never know for sure either way. And yes, this means the Ent-A was another ship that was renamed (Yorktown or otherwise).
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posted
I think that the Enterprise A was like 1 of 3 left in service by 2293. The Constitution class was probally only mean't to be around for 50 years. The Excelsior and Miranda class were relatively new designs and had proven how reliable they were in the field. The constitution refit although a good design had it flaws and had shown these flaws in the field.
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posted
Anyone remember Admiral Morrow's line about the Enterprise being 'x' years old. I know he got the 'x' wrong (20 instead of 40), but that gives us some idea of what the intended operational lifetime for a Connie was.
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