posted
Gene Roddenberry said that the Enterprise-A was the renamed Yorktown, which explains why the ship was being retired from service after Star Trek VI: she was coming to the end of her operational service.
The Enterprise is actually on display in the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C. It's quite beautiful, hanging from the enterence to whatever exhibit they decide to display it outside of.
I think Constitution-Class ships were retired a lot earlier than 2350. Relics established that only one ship was left, and Picard had seen it in the Fleet Museum. I think that's good evidence that the Class has been retired for quite some time.
Why do people insist on calling the Connie-refit the Enterprise-Class? Is there ANY canonical data to support this?
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** And homeschooling also turns you into a socially well-adjusted person, capable of talking to people without them wanting to ram a f***ing chair down your throat! - PsyLiam, 3/11/01
posted
Also the Enterprise-A was likely a new ship, not a refit. For one thing, the refit program was well into it run, some ten years or so, so it is likely the orig Const ships were completed by then. Also, at this time, the Const were the main line ships of the fleet. The Federation had expanded, so a few more ships would have been needed, along with the smaller classes. Twelve big ships would not have been enough to cover the Federation of the late 2200's. Scotty also refers to the ship as "new" and the ship was full of bugs, just like new cars are sometimes.
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posted
I think Scotty meant "new" as in: to the name Enterprise. The new USS Enterprise.
The Yorktown took heavy damage from the probe, explaining why Scotty's having trouble with repairs. In Starfleet HQ, you can see the Yorktown's captain explaining how the ship has no power and they're trying to deploy a solar sail. And now that the Yorktown is renamed Enterprise, Scotty's gotta fix all the problems.
Even if the Enterprise-A was a new ship, why would she then be retired a few years later? When the ship left Khitomer, she was en-route to Earth for decomissioning.
Starfleet didn't need to rely on the Constitution-Class ships to protect its borders. There was an existing fleet of Miranda-Class ships, with Excelsior-Class ships beginning production, and Constellation-Class ships about to be introduced (or had been already -- anyone know the lowest registry we saw on a Constellation?) Starfleet wasn't short of ships by any means.
------------------ Star Trek Gamma Quadrant Average Rated 6.27 out of 10 Smileys by Fabrux (with four eps posted) *** "Oh, yes, screw logic, let's go for a theory with no evidence!" -Omega 11:48am, Jan. 19th, 2001 **** And homeschooling also turns you into a socially well-adjusted person, capable of talking to people without them wanting to ram a f***ing chair down your throat! - PsyLiam, 3/11/01
[This message has been edited by JeffKardde (edited March 14, 2001).]
posted
What I meant was that the design had various flaws. If the Enterprise-nil was refitted from the original design then it have structural flaws as the refit was designed around the original design. If Decker is right then there is about 10% left of the orginal Enterprise. If the Enterprise was completely newly built from scratch then that 10% of the original ship config. would go somewhere else.
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posted
Greetings Fellow Shipmates, I'm new here - actually, I've been lurking reading the postings for the last 6 months or so. I'm looking forward to discussing starship design with all of you.
I've been reading this thread and have some comments:
Would you consider the possibility that the refit Constitutions were retired purely for political reasons? That seems more feasible, given the fact that other ship classes are still operating (with upgrades I assume).
Regarding the Ent having flaws, I have to admit that the writers think the ship has some. It has bothered me that the Ent had problems when it was supposed to be the flagship of Starfleet. At the time of ST:TMP, the Ent withstood Vger's attack. (At least the 1st salvo). Yet in the later movies, the ship has serious operational problems.
I also read in this post that the Miranda is not able to stand up to the Constitutions in combat. I'm not so sure about that. I've read that the Reliant was a heavy frigate and ST2:WOK certainly supports this.
If you recall, the Reliant fired 2 types of phasers: the "regular" thin red line type (which came from the button type phaser emitters) and the wide white type (which came from the tips of the roll-bar mounted tip phaser emitters). I've heard this phaser referred to as a mega-phaser or phaser cannon. That phaser punched directly through the hull of the Ent! It was certainly more powerful than the standard type which cut through the hull much more slowly.
As far as operational lifetimes of starships and whether or not the Yorktown was renamed Ent, I will say that the people in charge of "canon" (how I loathe that word) really screwed things up. I've read at least 3 different "offical" versions of what ship the Ent was supposedly renamed from.
You could refit a starship, or anything else for that matter, for as long as you wanted. I would assume that for whatever reason, Starfleet retired most of the Ent types and kept the others current through upgrades & refits.
One last thought: the current revision of what is "official" starship design irritates me to no end. That is how a lot of the starship continuity problems developed. I really want to know why the current producers/designers have decided to just ignore official material?
Whew. That was a lot for my 1st post. Regards, Tony
posted
Couldn't it just be that the new Excelsiors replaced the Constitution in the role of space exploration ship much like the Galaxies replacing the Ambassadors?
BTW, the Sovvie was not designed to replace the Galaxy-class!
posted
Still these spaceframes could not possibly accomodate 100 years of new technology. The spaceframes themselves would need to be rebuilt to maintain durability and strength. And also, how could Starfleet planners tactically consider using a fleet of aging ships to augment relativly few newer designs against, for example, the Romulans? The Romulans have what seems to be a large fleet of Warbirds, which outclass by leaps and bounds Starfleet's most abundant ship the Excelsior. Why not replace it with the Nebula? Or the Ambassador? If Starfleet has the resources to constantly rebuild and refit ships, why design new ships at all? Why not just incorporate new technology into age old designs?
------------------ Ian Hughes
[This message has been edited by dih1138 (edited March 14, 2001).]
posted
Please press 'Enter' somewhere in your messages...
The Reliant had the element of surprise. Plus, the first volleys hit the engineering deck and the main torpedo bay, pretty good aiming there. And we never even saw where the aft torpedo hit...
It could perhaps make quicker turns due to less mass than the Constitution class, but it is essentially the same ship.
I don't think there were two different phaser types or they would've used them in other classes if it was successful. My guess would be unreliable GFX...
posted
What about the fact that the Enterprise was a Cadet training ship? Last time I checked that aging ships were given that role (except Valiant for some reason) I don't think that Starfleet would have retired the Enterprise as the Flagship after 15 years with no good reason. (This is assuming that Constitution/refit was the only havy cruiser type in Starfleet at that time)
What about political reasons? So you're saying that the Constitution/refit was retired in favor of an untested class that failed at it's own experiments? It's a possbility but...
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posted
All of the Excelsior- and Miranda-class ships that we've seen in the TNG/DS9 era have had newer registry numbers. Most have been in the NCC-31xxx range for the Miranda, and the NCC-42xxx range for the Excelsior. By most estimates that's around 2325 or 2330.
Ships are known to remain in service for 50 years or even more. Heck, the USN's USS Constitution is more than 200 years old! (Granted, it's not REALLY an active vessel anymore, but it's certainly seaworthy.) So it's not a stretch for some of the newer Excelsior-class ships to still be in service in the DS9 years.
IIRC, the USS Ronald Reagan (which was launched last week) has a lifetime of 50 years or so. The USS Nimitz is pushing 40 or 45 years as well, I believe.
posted
The Nimitz is pushing 30 years at most. The Enterprise (CVN-65) is already 40 years old. She's not due to be replaced until 2018 or so. That would make the Big 'E' nearly 60 years old at decommisioning.
------------------ [Bart's looking for his dog.] Groundskeeper Willy: Yeah, I bought your mutt - and I 'ate 'im! [Bart gasps.] I 'ate 'is little face, I 'ate 'is guts, and I 'ate the way 'e's always barkin'! So I gave 'im to the church. Bart: Ohhh, I see... you HATE him, so you gave him to the church. Groundskeeper Willy: Aye. I also 'ate the mess he left on me rug. [Bart stares.] Ya heard me!
posted
That would still make her nearly 60 years old. Okay just a little over 50 years, but that's still impressive.
------------------ [Bart's looking for his dog.] Groundskeeper Willy: Yeah, I bought your mutt - and I 'ate 'im! [Bart gasps.] I 'ate 'is little face, I 'ate 'is guts, and I 'ate the way 'e's always barkin'! So I gave 'im to the church. Bart: Ohhh, I see... you HATE him, so you gave him to the church. Groundskeeper Willy: Aye. I also 'ate the mess he left on me rug. [Bart stares.] Ya heard me!
posted
The reason why the Bird of Prey remains in service after so many years is probably simply a cultural difference. Feds think that their ships have to be modern in order to be effective - and for them, modern means "no part of the ship is older than a given number of years, by DESIGN".
Klingons think the same - except for them, modern means "no part of the ship is older than a given number of years, by CONSTRUCTION". The basic design may remain unchanged for centuries if not for millennia, while old ships rot away and new ones are built to the same design to replace them. When enemy technological advances make it impossible for one ship of the original design to defeat the enemy, the Klingons do not design a new ship (at least not as fast as the Feds) - they simply build TWO ships of the original design, and destroy the enemy with those. Then they build four ships, or ten, or add another disruptor cannon with slightly more range, or increase the yield or number of torps carried by some fraction, or upgrade the shield generators... That may be cheaper for them, or more warriorlike, or just plain easier. They probably laugh at the idiotic Feds who waste so much resources in R&D.
The Feds probably do this only when backed up against a wall. Big wars might do that. So with the Klingon cold war, the Feds were stuck with the Constitutions (and possibly corresponding lighter but unseen designs like Saladins) and built plenty of those because they worked. When there was no war, the Feds built multiple ship classes, low in numbers but each more advanced than the predecessor. And when wars again threatened in the 24th century (perhaps because of UFP expansion and "thinning out" of the fleet), Starfleet again had to mass-produce the designs that worked adequately at the time (the heavy Excelsior and light Miranda and later perhaps the plentiful Steamrunner and Saber). Starfleet seriously disliked doing so, though, and went for more diverse designs as soon as it could afford to do so.
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