posted
That's the problem anyway. These guys know perfectly well how to design a space battle - that is how to work their computers to realise the images technically.
They haven't got a clue about tactis and the like.
But they have to produce the results TPTB want to have/the writers have envisioned. Often that is not what we would like to see.
I don't see how this will ever change.... Sadly.
------------------ Kryten: Pub? - Ah yes. A meeting place where people attempt to achieve advanced states of mental incompetence by the repeated consumption of fermented vegetable drinks. - Red Dwarf "Timeslides"
posted
Why have Excelsiors or Mirandas? Why not Akiras or Intrepids?
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Could one possible senario be that these are actual refits of older ships... for all we know the original Akiras - that could have been around for the Cardassian wars... had Excelsior or even Ambassador era - type nacelles? That maybe why we see so many of these ships in First Contact... they were all at UP and Sector 001 ship yards undergoing refitting. New phaser banks, new lifeboats, new nacelles - but the hull etc - prollay stays pretty much the same. This would explain their appearance in Relativity and even some of those Steamrunners that had no bussard collectors on them.
They could be older ships taken out of mothballs and spruced up... especially after the Wolf 359 defeat. The Borg presence, and DEFINATELY after the destruction of the Odyssey at the Hands of the Dominion. When they pulled the Defiant out, they probably pulled a few of the older ships out too and spruced them up. This would have been also at the same time as the upgrade to Deep Space Nine.
I think that the Sabre might have been another one of those 'Borg weapons' along with the Defiant... since those Sabres didn't seem to have old numbering...
2. For fleet tactics - yes it would have been nice to have a bit more clarity reguarding 'orders' of ships and tactics. I think they went for more ships on screen than having a good idea of the lay out.
a) maybe this was to present the outnumbering of the Starfleet ships
b) maybe the whole tactic WAS just to punch a whole through Dominion lines.
3. For tactics like some of you mentioned... go watch Babylon 5's "Shadow Dancing" it really shows you how all the different races came together and used their different types and abilities of ships effectively to destroy a much more powerful enemy. Then go and watch "Into the Fire" The battle at the start has some order, but the 'big arsed' battle has, like SoA absolutely NO semblence of order, there are just ships everywhere. And you never get a long enough view of any one ship. At least in SoA, we got some nice 'beauty shots' of the Defiant + Mirandas and "Sisko's Run" etc.
4) My perfect fleet? I'll have to give it a bit more thought but, 1. A Galaxy or Sovereign class controlling the battle from a "Stellar Cartography" type set... Then having the battle spread out over an entire Solar system. With Galaxys, Ambassadors and Nebulas as these huge ships that basically become weapon platforms with surrounding medium class ships that do a bulk of the fire power... Excelsiors, Akiras, New Orleans, Niagra's and Steamrunners, a few smatterings of Cheyennes, Freedoms, Norways and Intrepids. And swarms of smaller ships like Mirandas, Defiants, Sabres and Peregrins/attack fighters. This would have to take place over a large area and not just involve "firepower" but tactics. ------------------ "Yar, a lesbian? That girl had a sex drive! First, Data in Naked Now, then, in Hide and Q, she hits on Picard! "Oh, if only you weren't the captain..." God! If Denise Crosby hadn't left the series, she'd've slept with the entire senior staff by now!" Jeff Kardde - March 7, 2001
[This message has been edited by AndrewR (edited March 15, 2001).]
posted
Anyone remember my old "Which Starship Would you Send to Accomplish This Mission" scenarios? I should try to dig them up - it'd be fun to go over those again. Does anyone know where archives of rec.arts.startrek.tech for 1999 might be found? Alternatively, might Timo remember what I'm talking about, and saved some of those old messages?
Mark
------------------ "Why build one, when you can have two at twice the price?"
- Carl Sagan, "Contact"
[This message has been edited by Mark Nguyen (edited March 16, 2001).]
posted
Google bought Deja's Usenet archives recently. Their front end is still a beta, and I'm not sure if they've got the whole thing up and available for searching yet, but it's a good place to start.
posted
I do remember those discussions fondly, but alas, I saved nothing. I never do, since there are so many nice people here with a tendency to archive cool things just for me...
I've come to think, though, that Starfleet in peacetime is usually spread so thin that you don't get to choose a ship for a mission. Even a starbase commander might not be able to assign suitable ships to a mission in short enough a timeframe, but would have to respond to a military crisis with an Oberth as a stopgap measure, or send a Defiant to survey a threatening space anomaly. If you have the luxury to assemble a task force, you'r probably best off if you include the widest possible variety of ships - then you will have the best odds of having a suitable ship to respond to the NEXT crisis. But you can't keep your full spectrum of ships gathered into one task force forever.
posted
I agree with Omega_Glory, the perfect fleet is a general question. Specifics, people, specifics! Anyway, my 'perfect' fleet would consist of two taskforce fleets.
I could be missing a ship, but this is basically it.
------------------ "There will be a substantial reward for the one who finds the Millennium Falcon. You are free to use any methods necessary, but I want them alive. No disintegrations."
-Lord Darth Vader (Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back)
posted
So here's mine: a planetary assault task force.
First wave:
2-4 task forces comprising
1 command ship - Nebula/Galaxy or Ambassador/Niagara 2-4 heavy cruisers - Excelsior 4-12 escorts - New Orleans, Saber, anything in that size range (frigates, destroyers or light cruisers by designation, take your pick); Mirandas excluded from the first wave because of presumed lack of speed 6-8 planetary assault ships - Steamrunner 2 cruiser/carriers - Akira
Something like 10-12 fighters per Akira, 6 per Galaxy or Nebula. Steamrunners full of assault barges and shuttles, "every pound for space-to-ground".
1-2 attached scouting forces comprising
1 Intrepid/Yeager/Prometheus or similar fast ship
1-2 defence suppression flotillas comprising
4-8 Freedom or similar or 2-4 Defiant or similar
Second wave:
4 assault groups comprising
6-8 assault ships - Steamrunner 2 escorts - Miranda, Saber or similar 1-2 special support ships - Oberths, Olympics, others
Possible older, light cruisers added for protection, including Constellation.
Third wave:
Lots of transports - Istanbul, Yorkshire, you-name-it 2-8 escorts - Miranda, Saber or similar
posted
Specifics huh? Why not perfect fleet in which every AREA is perfect? You know couple hundred Oberths and Novas for exploration and a couple hundred Defiants for combat?
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posted
Why not thousands! The alpha quad is big. Get some more numbers! Don't forget, it caaalms the neeerves!
And then you inevitably reach the point when you realize it would be better if no warships would exist and there would only be explorers and transports...
I reached the same conclusion after trying to build the perfect 1939 warfleet. Just take all that metal and build irrigation channels in Zimbabwe or something.
posted
From what we saw in the Dominion war, your numbers are way too small. A fleet for example the 9th had well over 300 ships in it. And if you assume that every major planet is protected by a large fleet, and then add in the offensive fleets you're talking big numbers.
posted
Of couse it was a very rough example. I think that the MY perfect fleet would be like this:
Split into 9 fleets 1-2 Sovereigns (depending on where the fleet is) 6-10 Galaxys (Secondary Command ships) 6-10 Prometheus (Support Command ships) 90-120 Akiras (Launch a massive strike from behind) 200-300 Defiants (Combat the smaller, more manuverable ships) 75-100 Intrepids (Scout the area for enemies)
In every major planet I would put either a shipyard base and a Spacedock/Starbase 74 type starbases.
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posted
*Transwarp conduit opens* *An astoundingly large number of Borg cubes/spheres/diamonds/lozenges appear*
WE ARE THE PERFECT BORG FLEET. YOUR FLEETS ARE FUTILE. WE WILL ADAPT TO YOUR ATTACKS AND ASSIMILATE YOU ALL.
------------------ The government that seems the most unwise, oft goodness to the people best supplies. That which is meddling, touching everything, will work but ill, and disappointment bring. - The Tao Te Ching
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