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Author Topic: Enterprise Class
capped
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im not sure what the naval procedure is for refitting ships to a different class is, but the Enterprise/Constitution issue seems bizarre compared to the navy in one respect: In the navy, if two vessels are the same type, have a similar tonnage and crew complement, but are fitted with different power systems and weapons thay are usually of different classes. Even ships that, in profile, are almost indistinguishable visually.

The new CVNX class which is still being planned is going to be structurally identical to the Nimitz-class, just with different electronics and a smaller crew complement. Some class of carriers are one-of-a-kinds, like the JFK class which is a modified Kitty Hawk. And there were only a handful of the Kitty Hawk-class, which is the Forrestal-class with different tower & elevator configurations, and missiles instead of guns. The Enterprise-class is a one-of a kind too.

By these standards of class differences, a Constitution built simply with a) a different bridge tower b) a different torpedo launcher c) a different type of computer core or d) a different cargo/shuttle arrangement would be of a different class. Certainly a ship with a completely different appearance nacelle configuration etc. would be . The Galaxies built with extra phaser banks might be a different class, or the Ambassadors with the saucer-jut and bussard-covers would be a different class, as would the roll-bar-less Mirandas and the E-B type Excelsiors, and the various Nebul� variants. One situation that would make extreme sense would be the Soyuz.

BTW, i believe the original intention was for the new refit to be called 'Enterprise'-class.. the first mention of the Enterprise remaining a 'Constitution' after its refit wasnt until 91 when Okuda included it in his graphics for ST:VI, thus making another of his assumptions take on a degree of canon. Probably he was concerned about the Naked Now where they said constitution and it showed the refit-E on the display.. but then again the E-refit still had the old E on its screen in ST:III (presumably labeled as Const. because it was scanned from the Franz J. TM)

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The Mighty Monkey of Mim
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Except for the fact that other than in Fandom (really saying: "non-canon," but let's stay on topic) sources we have seen that Starfleet does not use sub-classes. Ships that are different are just 'variants' of the same class. The Lantree and Saratoga do not have their own sub-classes, they are just "Miranda-class variants."

And while I guess a case could be made that on occasion USN ships change class (or, more accurately, are assigned their own sub-classes) I don't really see that fitting with what we've seen in Trek to date. That's just my personal inclination.

TPTB, and all canon sources, all agree that the refit-Constitution is just that---A refitted version of the Constitution-class. Not a new class, just an upgrade of the existing one. This is supported onscreen by dialog in TNG, by Chekov's screen in STIII, and by Scotty's blueprint in STVI. I think it's quite reasonable to say that this plaque was simply referring to one of two things:

1.) The simulator being used by the class of cadets in training for service aboard the Enterprise.
2.) The class of the simulator. (This could be likely because as we've seen, ships of the same class don't always have the same bridge modules. We've never seen the bridge of another refit-Connie, so this could be an unique bridge for the Enterprise. Thus, an Enterprise-class bridge simulator. I admit it's a bit of a stretch because the Grissom and Reliant both had the same bridge, but at least it's a fairly plausible explanation.)

-MMoM

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The359
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Actually, regarding the CVNX Project, you're almost right. USS Ronald Reagan CVN-76 is going to be the final Nimitz Class built, then followed by the CVN-77, which is currently called the "Evolved Nimitz Class". It'll be similar to a Nimitz with minor differences like you listed, although it wont have the exact same profile (Seen Here and Here). But at the same time it will also be a step between the Nimitz Class and the CVNX. It will be a single-ship class, similar to the Enterprise and John F. Kennedy Classes, which were both upgrades on the Kitty Hawk Class.

Three ships of this class are currently known to be planned, CVNX-1 (CVN-78) to replace Enterprise in 2013, CVNX-2 (CVN-79) to replace John F. Kennedy in 2018, and CVNX-3 (CVN-80) to replace Nimitz in 2025.

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"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."

-Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney, LeMans


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colin
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The second Enterprise, USS Enterprise NCC-1701, has been associated with more classes than any other known ship.

1966 to 1969 STARSHIP CLASS
1982 ENTERPRISE CLASS
1984 CLASS 1 HEAVY CRUISER
1987 CONSTITUTION CLASS

Since these four classes are known by dialogue or by visual evidence, they are technically correct for this starship. The question then becomes, How do we write a logical and reasonable argument that explains how a single ship can have four different classes?


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capped
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well Starship class and Class 1 dont refer to ship named-classes.

A Class 1 heavy cruiser might encompass all heavy cruisers of a certain tonnage, energy output, mission profile, etc and encompass a few ship-named classes, in that they all differ from a Class 2 heavy cruiser.

(presumably it the 'Class I Heavy Cruiser' you mean is from the displays scanned from Franz' TM then they say 'Constitution-class' right under them in a smaller font.)

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The359
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Curse you Mike, Curse you...

[ November 17, 2001: Message edited by: The359 ]



--------------------
"Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."

-Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney, LeMans

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colin
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I am more interested in the connections that connect these four classes and how this interconnected matrix can be used to define the USS Enterprise NCC-1701.

Or, in simpler language,
1. After we connect these classes together, what can we learned about this second Enterprise?
2. Then, we could attempt to answer the question, why are there four classes for one ship in the Star Trek Universe?

[ November 17, 2001: Message edited by: targetemployee ]


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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
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except for the Ent/Const. issue, none are exclusive of the others.


Here goes (these are my own suppositions of definitions that would fit the facts available):

  • Starship-class.
    Supposition: A starship is any high warp-capable vessel that can travel to another star system in a reasonable amount of time, without requiring the support of other vessels.
    This definition excludes: Embarked craft such as shuttles, impulse-ships, sleeper ships, low-warp vessels that would take months or years to reach another star.
    This definition would include every starship weve seen so far, including runabouts (thus justifying their status as USS & NCC ships rather than auxiliary vessels)
  • Class I Heavy Cruiser.
    Supposition: A Class I Heavy Cruiser is any cruiser armed starship with a tonnage exceeding 150,000mt, with cargo capacity of 3,000mt or more that can support the mission profile of 3 or more years of extended patrols & exploration, response time of speeds higher than warp factor 6.5. (a class II could possibly slower, or have less cargo space, etc...) (or class II could even be used further down the line, where the usage of the word 'class' might be similar to 'mark' i.e. the next major heavy cruiser design would be class II, III after that, etc...)
  • Constitution-class.
    Canon: The Constitution-class is a type of Federation starship designed as a heavy cruiser, length 289 meters. First built in 2245, this class features speeds above warp 6, up to warp 8.
    Supposition: The Constitution class has undergone several modifications represented by the sub-classes Bonhomme Richard (new bridge dome & bussard colelctors), Achernar (new deck 2 dome & deflector gridding), Endeavour (variant warp nacelles), Constitution(II)(evolved warp nacelles, sensory, docking ports), Tikopai (new bridge dome, nacelles, torpedo bay), Enterprise (new cargo docking configuration, nacelles, warp core, bridge & weapons and America (new computer core & torpedo bay). These vessels are all still Constitution-class in the Federation naval register, but when referring to design features the more descriptive sub-class name can be used for clarity
  • Enterprise-class.
    Supposition: Dock nomenclature for a sub-class of the Constitution class, a variant which originated with the 2270-2271 refit of the USS Enterprise NCC-1701. While not official naval register terminology for the Constitution-variant vessel, this is used to refer to the refit vessels for clarity's sake in Fleet memos and signage.
So, given the suppositions there:
  • The USS Enterprise NCC-1701 is a starship-class vessel (every ship weve seen with a NCC number is starship class too)
  • The USS Enterprise NCC-1701 is a class I heavy cruiser (in both original and refit modifications) (so are the faster Boston-class and the more heavily armed Andoria-class.. or not whatever...)
  • The USS Enterprise NCC-1701 is Constitution-class
  • The USS Enterprise NCC-1701 was an Enterprise-class variant after it was refit.

    so they are all descriptive of the Enterprise from the very broad (starship encompassing all down to narrower [type, class and then the specific design]).. Yay!

    [ November 17, 2001: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]



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  • TSN
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    I've always figured that "starship class" is like saying "cruiser class" or "freighter class" or something. It was simply the terminology used in 2245 for that type of ship.

    "Class 1 heavy cruiser" would be in the same category. Just, sometime between 2245 and whenever this newer term appeared, the E's classifiaction was changed. Just different terminology.

    "Enterprise class" is a the simulator, not the ship.

    And "Constitution class" is the actual class name of the ship, as derived per tradition from the prototype ship's name.

    That, in my opinion, is the easiest, most sensical way to look at it.


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    David Templar
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    You know, unless there was a NX-00, the real "Enterprise Class" would be the Akiraprise.

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    The359
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    Well, it's possible the Enterprise NX-01 is a modification of an existing class, ya know? It could just be special because of the warp drive and everything...

    --------------------
    "Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."

    -Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney, LeMans

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    David Templar
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    quote:
    Originally posted by The359:
    Well, it's possible the Enterprise NX-01 is a modification of an existing class, ya know? It could just be special because of the warp drive and everything...

    It's based on the wreckage of a starship which crashed on Mars hundreds of years ago. Some say that it came from the future...

    [ November 18, 2001: Message edited by: David Templar ]



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    The359
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    *backhands David Templar*

    You know what I meant!

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    "Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."

    -Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney, LeMans


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    capped
    I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
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    the only thing weve heard on the subject is that, on a recent poster the NX-01 is listed as 'NX-class'

    hm

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    PsyLiam
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    TargetEmployee: Is there some reason you feel the need to mention that Kirk's ship is the second Enterprise in both your posts?

    Besides, it might not be. Since we've already opened the gate of "Non-Federation Starfleet Enterprises", we could get more.

    Was Franz Joseph the one who came up with "Constitution-class"? Or was that what Gene & Co (or possibly Jeffries) were calling it back in the 60s, but they used "Starship-class" onscreen because they were already trying to get the whole starship idea across to the viewers, and didn't want to confuse them.

    For that matter, were there any ships called "starships" in TOS that weren't Connies? I seem to remember Klingon ships were usually called "Battlecruiseers", or something like that.

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