We know that at least one Daedalus-class ship made it to a point that was a hundred light-years beyond Federation space a hundred years later. That's a long, long way out at Warp Three.
Ref: "A Piece of the Action"
Therefore, a Daedalus must have had greater range than the small expendable Earth cruisers of the NX-01 era.
Of course, there's very little connection between the the design of the NX-01 and the design of the Daedalus... making the task of drawing a line from NX-01 to Constitution a lot harder.
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With regard to the Daedalus lineage, it may look so different from NX-01 given that NX-01 is built by humans only (we no Vulcans were of practically no help at all) while it might be reasonable for Daedalus to be a joint design, the first made by the Federation Starfleet. Maybe Tellarites love big sphere ships... Or perhaps it was "starship design by committee".
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Hmm... that's a possibility. But IMO the Daedalus looks too much like a Human-built ship anyway. Despite 35 years in difference (design time), they carry too many of the same stylistic features, like the greyish hull, long nacelles extended from the ship, and so on.
Besides, you have to consider that Starfleet remains a force that's dominated by Humans in the TOS era, a hundred years later... so why would non-Humans be contributing to the design of ships that their people won't be serving on?
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A few notes ( i havent read all these posts yet )
NX-01: Most of us here dont think that NX-01 has anything to do with the Federation starfleet. I think its just as likely that the other Earth ships that were limited to warp 3 had registries like NV-16 and NR-102, etc.. and that there wont be any NCC registries until 2161 (and the NX being the same as Fed SF NX regs is coincidental or otherwise unrelated).
We also dont know a whole lot about the Daedalus, and if it is ever shown, we really need to accept that the Encyclopedia isnt going to have presented it accurately. If they show it as being a larger than NX-01 and smaller than NCC-1701, I'd be willing to accept the change of its design, and disregard Okuda's graphics from the Encyclopedi�.
And since the Horizon was never clearly seen in any DS9 episode on Sisko's desk, yes i consider it to remain in the domain of 'questionable' canon.. it can and should be contradicted should it become necessary (though i doubt it will).. seeing as no canonical Trek production has ever specifically stated how long a Daedalus is, I'd be willing to disregard the dimensions of the model for a more sensible scaling that makes it a more sensible bridge between ENT and TOS
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I rewatched "Piece of the Action"; the only info gleaned from that episode is that
1) The Horizon reached the planet, messed it up, left, and was "lost" with all of its crew aboard (the episode doesn't explain what happened to it).
2) The Horizon didn't have subspace radio (according to Kirk), and sent a conventional radio message that took 100 years to reach the Federation (it was received "last month" relative to the time of the episode).
3) Kirk says (paraphrasing) that Sigma Iotia is in the far reaches of the galaxy, indicating that we're talking about a starbase or a subspace beacon receiving the message, suggesting a distance of much more than 100 light-years from Earth.
I also checked the script for "Power Play":
1) There hasn't been a Daedalus in service for 172 years.
2) The Essex, NCC-173 with a crew of 229, under the overall command (in that sector) of Admiral Uttan Narsu of Starbase 12, disappeared "over two hundred years ago."
3) The Essex sent out a subspace beacon, so it did have the radio.
The Horizon was probably fulfilling the same kind of mission as Kirk's ship, albeit with more primitive tech and without the Prime Directive. We might interpret Kirk's line about the lacking subspace radio as an error -- maybe Kirk was informed that the Horizon didn't use subspace radio (it was damaged?), and rationalized it with a vague recollection of history.
The simplest explanation is that the Horizon is a ship newer than the NX-01, launched a few years after the founding of the Federation and sent out on an independent, long-range exploration mission. Alternatively, it could be an older Earth ship that was refitted and adopted into the new Starfleet.
It's a weird thing, though, that the subspace beacon of the Essex remained undetected for 200 years, and that the moon where it crashed is referred to as "unexplored", despite the suggestion that there was a starbase in the sector 200 years ago. Or maybe Starbase 12 was responsible for all the unexplored sectors as well.
Boris
[ March 13, 2002, 13:23: Message edited by: Boris ]
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Sowhat do we have on the general mission of the Daedalus class?
1. All the missions we have read or heard about indicates that these ships are explorers. Also alot of these missions, these ships are destroyed somehow.
2. The Daedalus class is smaller, and does not have nearly as much room as the NX class, so one could assume that these ships are second of the line ships next to the NX class and other large ships.
3. Only Starfleet ships this small are the Oberth class and the Defiant class (if you count the 120 meters) and possibly the Nova class. Two of these ships are designed as science ships.
I agree that these ships are possibly the Oberth class of their day. However what bugs me, why make the general design of all their ships look like a disposable science ship?
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You forget the Raven at 90m (if you count it as a Starfleet ship). It, too, was both a science ship and a proud member of the go-too-far-and-get-killed category.
The missions of the Daedaluses were more risky than that of the NX-01, considering that in both cases mentioned thus far, radio contact had been lost for a while. The Essex seems to have lost communications with Starfleet quite some time before it disappeareed, otherwise Starfleet would've known which moon they crashed on, or at least the general area. This is also supported by the "weak subspace beacon" that wasn't detected until the Enterprise arrived. Maybe that's why the Horizon used conventional radio, rather than subspace radio to send its message.
The crew of 229 in such a small volume also suggest the kind of a spartan atmosphere that the NCC-1701 would feature later on. Maybe the NX-01 never really went *that* far (which will be supported by the TNG-era conception of speed and distances), and spent most of its time in the immediate neighborhood. You don't send out your best ships on such risky assignments -- the NX-01 has a great political value, being the first ship to defy the Vulcans' domination and all that.
Boris
[ March 13, 2002, 14:45: Message edited by: Boris ]
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At the time of "ENT" we don't have 'word' classes they are 'letters' so I'd say it's after the NX-01 is launched (that we get the first Daedelii)
As mentioned - gone quite far out.
"Starbase 12" Earth must have starbases in ENT's time SURELY. I think it holds up that Cochrane wasn't a native of Earth, but may have been living/stuck there during WWIII.
I noticed in "Operation:- Annhilate" that Deneva was established over 100 years ago by traders... that would plonk it during 'Enterprise' time... It'd be nice to visit there again. (Where was ep filmed?)
Anyway, I think the big thing here is that the Daedelii have 200+ crew members, (and presumably less bulky equipment) in contrast to NX-Enterprise's 80 members.
Oh, and a big difference - a secondary hull.
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posted
The larger crew tells us something about its mission profile; after all, people need people on long-range journeys, and besides, if you're out there exploring without the support of starbases, you'll need a number of specialists for various missions.
[ March 14, 2002, 07:04: Message edited by: Boris ]
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Attempts to rationalize Enterprise are pretty much doomed to failure due to the more blatant continuity contradictions.
Biggie: The S.S. Columbia sets out for the Talos Star Group around 2235 on a survey mission. At the time, no ships travel faster than warp 4. This "time barrier" isn't broken until the Constitution class or thereabouts...
...But NX-01 can go how fast? Yup, that's what I thought. Numbers like that are the hardest thing to fudge.
--Jonah
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Stop! The centripetal forces on my pupils are killing me!
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quote: I think it holds up that Cochrane wasn't a native of Earth, but may have been living/stuck there during WWIII.
What?
Ohh, that - it stems from a thread about 2 or so years ago, where we were talking about explaining Cochrane's home (I think it was mentioned in TOS as being Alpha Centauri.) We were also trying to rationalise that with why Mars colonies weren't established until - what was it 2100 I think...
We have the search feature now - but I wonder how easily it'd pick up that thread!?!
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
First, nobody ever said in "The Cage" that Warp 4 was the time barrier. The only line to that effect is this: "The time barrier has been broken. Our ships can...." and that's where it ends.
Second, all they said about Cochrane is that he's "of Alpha Centauri" -- he could've easily settled there later, as indicated by the TNGTM.
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quote:Biggie: The S.S. Columbia sets out for the Talos Star Group around 2235 on a survey mission. At the time, no ships travel faster than warp 4. This "time barrier" isn't broken until the Constitution class or thereabouts...
Noone said Warp 4. Remember too that Warp 5 is the *top* speed of the NX-01, while the NCC-1701 top speed was around Warp 8. Considering the Vulcans can do 6.5 max, the barrier may be something like Warp 7.
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Or perhaps it was "starship design by committee".
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