We've never seen any sort of recruitment propaganda for Starfleet - per TNG, there hardly seems a shortage of volunteers. But given the primary mission of space exploration, you'd think that most people would join up with an eye on being part of that mission. Most Trek crews do indeed show that, too; they're out there to explore, and to improve the human condition. Yippee.
But let's say that YOU were suddenly thrust into the position of being able to apply to Starfleet Academy. On the application form is the inevitable question: "Why do you want to join Starfleet?"
We're talking about YOU, not some RPG character or some idealistic version of yourself. What would you answer?
posted
Adventure, getting away from the same crap I deal with in my home area/planet.....
Which is a reason I did join when I did....
I think that it would be much like today's military, some would feel the draw of the different situations, while others would follow different paths....
Heck, Jake didn't want to join Starfleet, while Nog did....
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posted
Ya know what's funny? The idea of the Starfleet exploration mission has been so over-glorified that people fail to remember that such a massive interstellar fleet requires a massive support infrastructure. There have got to be hundreds, if not thousands, of supply ships, couriers, transports, etc, not to mention ground support facilities. This is all established to be part of Starfleet... and do they have trouble recruiting for this area of the service?
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posted
Again, it's like the present military, or life in general....
Look at Matrix, he's going in to work on the aircraft, not fly them, which would be much more exciting....
You also have your librians, garbagemen, carpet cleaners, and all sorts of jobs that are demeaning... Look at factory work, someplaces won't even let you talk to the person next to you....
If there is a job, of any sort, there will be a person that is willing to do it, just create a few and watch who applies for it.....
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posted
Not for long, if the Doc has anything to say about it...
But such is the crux of the problem.. In a utopian future, who cleans the floors? What about the maintenance guys seen mopping/vacuuming/whatever in ST2 and 3? What about the server guys in Ten-Forward? What about the entire crews of Starfleet ships whose sole purpose is to haul their butts back and forth between starbases, as Captain DeSoto put it? Do all of them join Starfleet (or their various sub-organizations) to see the universe? And how pissed off are they not to be doing just that?
posted
"Gee, I always wanted to get off Planet HeckThisPlanetIsBoring III. But I can't afford it. So I'll join Starfleet. Ok, maybe I'll scrub the floors on a ship that only does cargo runs between two starbases ten months apart, but, hey, it's better then living with Mom & Dad on HeckThisPlanetIsBoring III!"
posted
The whole volunteer labour issue becomes somewhat more problematic in times of war. Joe Entomologist who hopped aboard the USS Sitak to collect and catalogue alien dragonfly samples in sector 123 for the Roddenberrian sake of it all might have fairly strong feelings about being ordered to stay aboard the ship as an assistant deputy director of damage control coordination on deck 5 when the ship is hurtling off to be cannon fodder against the Dominion.
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
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posted
The problem is figuring out why anyone does anything in a society without want or need.. most of the people in the military who do the so-called 'shitty' jobs do so because a) they are working on a career to a position here they dont have to do jobs they dont like or b) to get hooked up for joining the military with cash and scholarships.
But no one needs cash and nobody seems to have to pay for school in the future. Beyond the military, why does anyone become a garbageman? who cleans the toilets (oh wait.. thy clean themselves)
I think the idea of Trek's society being 'without need' to be inaccuarate. basically, with replicator technology, it is inexpensive to clothe, feed and house the entire population of the Federation.
THEORY: But beyond that, you would still have to work to earn money (or credit, since there is no 'money') to get the things you want. Theyll give you three square meals, a place to live and a few quasi-futuristic jumpsuits for free, but if you want to have three fancy meals, a place to live with a nice view, and a nice suit, you have to work up the credit.
But could the government require you to work? or do anything? Many references are made to the fact that, without the constraint of needs or wants, humans are free to 'enrich themselves' to aspire to do whatever they please. So perhaps there are those that work because they want to have a nice hovercar or a room with a view of the Golden Gate Bridge (oh wait .. I forgot.. every fucking house in SF has a view of the Golden Gate, according to filmed Trek). This leaves the people who dont really have anything to offer free to explore existence in a relaxed manner. But then, some fo these folks wouyld use the oodles of free time to explore poetry, art, music, etc, thus creating the utopic Earth we've theorized.
Of course, theres a mess of things to be considered there: an all encompassing media.. who decides, without money and sponsorship and sales, what 'good' art and other such creations are? Basically the same way as today, but less commercially.. bad artists will thrive because of overplay and good artists might lay in namelessness til they die. The only thing that is removed is the element of poverty. Would this free the arts or make it have no meaning?
And would the people who really have nothing to do get bored and find a job, just to keep busy (applying themselves to something simply to avoid boredom) Would the lack of challenge make them weak and cause society to collapse?
Perhaps thats why theyd leave Earth... fear of becoming meaningless...
Bashir's father certainly seems to be an example of what could happen.. he hops from job to job, trying whatever he pleases just for the amusement of it, and to be able to pass himself off as someone important who DOES something
What I have hesitated to mention is that, if no one chose to do anything, the government might be forced to require work from the population, or even worse, collapse, creating lots of evil repercussions. I'm thinknig that Federation system shouldnt be THAT much like socialism or communism, for fear of really scaring myself or starting a debate that will fill three or four areas of Flare with corpses
Of course, in Roddenberry's TMP novelization he says that most of Starfleet are conservatives who want to preserve old traditions, because Earth is full of 'New Humans' who've turned the place into a big commune. Which he would have shown in the Phase II pilot, nudity in the park included. I love how Gene makes it all make sense somehow
[ June 02, 2002, 21:29: Message edited by: CaptainMike ]
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posted
Man, you guys are forgetting the future ain't exactly the same with our world today financially.
People "thinks" garbage man, or floor cleaners are demeaning because frankly, they make squats on financial terms, therefore their quality of life sucks.
But in the Federation, government take care of almost everything a citizen may need to survive, not only that, they also provide plenty of free entertainments. Federation is able to provide all these through the means of holographic technology, replication, and abundence in energy sources (anti-matter).
Federation is as close as you can get to a idealistic communist society! Where people are no longer driven by desire to improve himself and himself only, but he's working towards the greater good of the society as a whole
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posted
Er...since when has the prevailing attitude been "we must devote ourselves to society."
Look, obviously the Federation is a little different than modern day nations. It's wealthier. A lot wealthier. What's valuable has completely shifted away from material goods, because most material goods are so easily produced. But that has nothing to do with the UFP being an "idealized communist society." The government is alive and well. The preeminance of the individual is alive and well.
Of course, ultimately the majority of the Federation is in our heads, not on the screen, largely by design, I suspect, and looks like whatever we want it to look like.
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posted
Well, without turning this into a full-bore debate on the Federation economy, I'll just point out that Mike seems to be, to sound dorky, stuck thinking like a 21st century human, or at least taking some aspects of our life today to be fundamental to human existence, when Trek has strongly implied otherwise.
quote:Originally posted by CaptainMike: I think the idea of Trek's society being 'without need' to be inaccuarate. basically, with replicator technology, it is inexpensive to clothe, feed and house the entire population of the Federation.
THEORY: But beyond that, you would still have to work to earn money (or credit, since there is no 'money') to get the things you want. Theyll give you three square meals, a place to live and a few quasi-futuristic jumpsuits for free, but if you want to have three fancy meals, a place to live with a nice view, and a nice suit, you have to work up the credit
Herein lies the Roddenberriness of it all. Humans have been shown to be totally post-materialistic. Nobody really, really, wants three fancy meals, or a place to live with a nice view, or a nice suit. (Aside from the fact that to a replicator there's little difference between macaroni and cheese and filet mignon, or between a T-shirt and an Armani suit.)
And everyone winds up with a nice house, strangely enough. Don't ask me how that one works. Perhaps matte paintings with superimposed CG flying vehicles done by a crack art department are all the rage as wall hangings.
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I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
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posted
Well, I AM a dorky 21st century human..
Well, what I was trying to get at is, if you have everything you could ever want, why would you volunteer to go die in a metal box in space? seems pretty severe if all you are after is a change of scenery. But than again, there are always military types who will do such things, and they accept that tis not theirs to ask why...
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