Amasov Prime
lensfare-induced epileptic shock
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quote:U.S.S.WHORFIN NCC-1024 WHORFIN-CLASS First of it's class, A deep space explorer, Assigned to neutral zone patrol in 2293
If it is a deep space explorer, it is not a Whorfin-class ship. The fact that we say it's the class ship originates in the speculation of this ship being of the same type as Lakul and Robert Fox. On the other hand Lakul and Robert Fox could have been of the same class as Whorfin, but then it can't be an deep space explorer.
quote: U.S.S. REPUBLIC NCC-1371 >UNKNOWN<
Unknown? Oh no! Not again this discussion! *runs out of the room screaming*
quote:U.S.S. CONSTELLATION NCC-1974 CONSTELLATION-CLASS Underwent NX stage certification tests in 2293, Transported Jem'hadar to Starbase 201 in 2371, Assisted in the search for survivors of U.S.S. Honshu NCC-60205 with the U.S.S Defiant NX-74205
Do you think this was the same ship that was mentioned twice on DS9? Hardly believable. (Yes, I know what Okuda thinks, but...)
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The Whorfin mentioned in the OR charts or other ST6 material is probably named after the same Whorfin the two ST:G ships were. And probably *not* after the Buckaroo Banzai Whorfin, but a "real" counterpart in the Trek universe.
In any case, the Lakul and the Robert Fox were given registries with an NFT prefix - so they weren't Starfleet vessels (and the design is also non-Starfleet), but the N there might suggest they still were Federation vessels (and so does the name Robert Fox). Both Starfleet and this civilian organization could have respected the same Whorfin in the naming of two very different ships (the class ship of the freighter class, and then this Starfleet ship).
There would be no conflict there, since the operating organizations would be completely separate. This is a bit different from having a USS Constellation in DS9 that isn't of Constellation class, if Starfleet still operates the Constellation class at that time - *that* would be a potential cause of much confusion.
quote:Do you think this was the same ship that was mentioned twice on DS9? Hardly believable.
Well, the Lantree's also on that list and she was active until 2365. So the Constellation, probably newer than the Lantree, could be active a few years more.
quote:if Starfleet still operates the Constellation class at that time - *that* would be a potential cause of much confusion.
We know that the Constellation-class was active at least till 2374.
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quote:Unknown? Oh no! Not again this discussion! *runs out of the room screaming*
Whether you like it or not, there's NO canonical evidence that the Republic NCC-1371 was a Constitution class ship. None. The ship was never shown, never referred to as Connie class, and there are no charts or displays showing the ship to be Connie class.
BTW, here's an interesting page I found, even though they got the registry wrong...
[ June 14, 2002, 09:18: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
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-------------------- "Never give up. And never, under any circumstances, no matter what - never face the facts." - Ruth Gordon
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Amasov Prime
lensfare-induced epileptic shock
Member # 742
posted
That's an interesting page. And if Republic - Kirk's Republic - was another ship and not a Constitution, the ship mentioned in DS9's 'Valiant' might have been a newer vessel, maybe even a Constitution (And since Ron Moore said he concidered it to be the old Constitution...). Is the 1371 from the OR-chart, too? Otherwise (and this would be an interesting speculation on the production run of the Constitution - if we assume the successor was a Constitution) there would have been a Constitution launched after 2293. On the other hand, if we exclude Republic and Constellation from the Constitution-run, ~2245-~2293 is not that impressive. Miranda and Oberth both ad a much longer production run. So yes, it's OK to assume that Republic was not a Constitution, but the ship would have been pretty old by the time of TUC. What if the unidentified small image shows the real class of the vessel Republic and the others were of that unidentified class, too? It does remind me somehow on the old Phase-2 Stardestroyers. And they were at least in service until Star Trek 3.
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If we're venturing to comic territory (!), then I feel it only appropriate to mention that Diane Carey has a new USS Republic in the novel "Wagon Train to the Stars". She's a smallish escort vessel built in the early to mid 2270s, and distinguishes herself in battle against Orion pirates. Not an implausible candidate for a training ship later on.
posted
On a similar vein, my canon shiplist has five different Yorktowns. Some could be the same ship, or they could be all different ships. However, they are probably not all the SAME ship. Here's what I came up with:
1. U.S.S. Yorktown (2268) Scheduled to rendesvous with the Enterprise NCC-1701.
2. U.S.S. Yorktown (2286) Disabled by cetacean probe.
3. U.S.S. Yorktown (2293) Ensign Tuvok's father was posted to this ship.
4. U.S.S. Yorktown (operating in the 2360's) Riker wanted to get a message to this ship while incarcerated in the Tilonus mental hospital.
5. U.S.S. Yorktown (anti-time future of 2380?; referred to as "Zodiac Class" in the Encyclopedia) Made long-range scan of the Devron system.
Notes for each ship:
1. This Yorktown, AFAIK, was never canonically seen or referred to as Constitution class, or given a canon registry number. Okuda lists it as Constitution class NCC-1717, which I believe originally came from FJ's tech manual.
2. This Yorktown was in ST:IV, but only a small portion of the interior bridge was seen, in the Connie refit style. However, yet again there is no canon info for this ship's registry or class. For all we know, it could have been a Miranda. However, I think Okuda states that this is the same ship as the one above.
3. This Yorktown is either the same ship as above, or a new vessel commissioned after events in ST:IV, if the idea is believed that the Enterprise-A is really the #2 Yorktown. Either way, there has to be a Yorktown of some kind for Tuvok's dad to serve on in 2293.
4. This TNG ship is probably NOT any of the above ships, but again, canonically we don't know. If the #3 ship was a newly commissioned Miranda or Excelsior, then it's reasonable to assume that it might still be operating in the 2360's, with all the Mirandas & Excelsiors we've seen so far. Again, no class or registry number is given for this ship, although Okuda hints that this is the same ship as #5 (see below).
5. Canonically speaking, the existence of this ship is a matter of debate, since the circumstances of its use never took place. I don't recall if this ship was used in the "present" anti-time or the future anti-time, but if it was in the present, then it's logical to assume that it's the same ship as #4. If it was used in the future anti-time, then it's possible that it is an even newer ship than #4. Either way, yet again there is no canon registry or class for it.
If any of my information is in error, please let me know.
[ June 18, 2002, 10:40: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
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quote:On a similar vein, my canon shiplist has five different Yorktowns.
Some reported that a USS Yorktown appeared on the ship list in DS9 Whispers (2370).
quote:Okuda lists it as Constitution class NCC-1717, which I believe originally came from FJ's tech manual.
According to FJ's manual the registry is NCC-1704.
quote:5. I don't recall if this ship was used in the "present" anti-time or the future anti-time
IIRC the anti-time Riker mentioned that the ship was on Neutral Zone patrol.
[ June 18, 2002, 11:16: Message edited by: Spike ]
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quote:According to FJ's manual the registry is NCC-1704.
Oops, my mistake. I meant to say that the Yorktown's NCC-1717 registry came from the TNG Officer's Manual, a FASA publication.
As for the Yorktown being on the Whispers list, it was most likely the same Yorktown mentioned in "Frame of Mind." Anybody got a 'cap of the Whispers list?
[ June 19, 2002, 09:48: Message edited by: Dukhat ]
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
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quote: As for the Yorktown being on the Whispers list, it was most likely the same Yorktown mentioned in "Frame of Mind." Anybody got a 'cap of the Whispers list?
I have one somewhere, but it's of a very poor quality and incomplete, since the list was scrolling.
As to whether or not the future Yorktown is around during TNG depends on 2 things.
1. That registry numbers are chronological (which they usually are)
2. The Zodiac-Class's NCC-61137 is correct. Given that we don't have unrestricted access to every Okudagram ever made, we may never know about this one, so I'm willing to trust Okuda in this instance.
Since the story about the E-A's origins came from the great bird himself and that it doesn’t appear to contradict anything we know, I tend to accept this too. Given that the E-A was decommissioned just a few short years later. It seams unlikely that this was a brand new hull and as such it was probably the same Yorktown that we saw at the beginning of ST:IV could easily have been the Yorktown from TOS. Again, if the NCC-1717 registry is correct then this is almost certainly the case.
As for the 2293 Yorktown, it certainly can't be the NCC-6xxxx range Zodiac and it probably isn't the NCC-1717, so it most likely is in fact a new ship of undetermined class and registry. (However an Excelsior-Class ship in the NCC-2xxx range seams logical)
What we have here I think is 5 sighting of at least 3 different ships and until there is any information to the contrary, that is what I shall believe.
Of course you people can come to your own conclusions and make up your own minds.
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