Today I was watching BoBW 1/2 and FC (College kid with LOTS of free time) and I was wondering, what would have happened if in BoBW instead of the Enterprise D they had the Enterprise E? Whould that have changed the outcome of anything? Would the "E" tech have enough firepower / technoshit to slow down the cube at all?
Sorry if this is borring, but I thought what the hell I should ask it.
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Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
I doubt the E-E had any weapons or capabilities the E-D wouldn't have had, save for one: the quantum torpedoes. And since we saw that even those couldn't blow up a Borg cube with a single shot, the Borg would undoubtedly simply have adapted to this weapon.
And while I'm sure the E-E can separate its saucer for emergency ditching, it's also obvious it cannot operate in "separated flight mode" - the secondary hull is a crippled wreck after the separation, completely lacking impulse propulsion and phaser armament. So Riker and Shelby couldn't have pulled off the trick that helped them rescue Picard and ultimately saved the Federation.
So probably giving Picard/Riker the E-E in "BoBW" would have doomed the entire UFP to assimilation!
posted
I'd agree that the E-E doesn't bring much more to the fight other than the Q-torps (which we'd never heard of at that point of course). Supposed increases in phaser power wouldn't mean much.
I've sort of wondered in fact if the E-E is really a step up for Picard and co. or if Star Fleet just wanted to keep the Enterprise name so they put it on a somewhat more sturdy/less flashy ship in the hope that J-L won't bash it up as much.
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Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Indeed. I'm not very fond of assumptions like "E-E is the fastest starship out there" or "E-E is the most powerful warship out there" or "ships named Enterprise are the cream of Starfleet". It is true that the E-E during "FC" was "the most advanced", according to LaForge's possibly a bit chauvinist opinion. But apart from that, we know little about how the Sovereigns fit into the Starfleet scheme of things.
When the E-D crashed, Starfleet had three problems to cope with:
1) How to replace the ship? 2) What to do to Picard? 3) What to do to the name Enterprise?
Obviously, Picard and the name went to the new Sovereign class ship. However, it's not at all sure that this ship was the replacement of the E-D in any practical sense. More probably, the E-D was replaced by the Galaxy class USS Insignificant, with Captain Nowan in command. And Picard was indeed sent to captain a very different ship with a very different mission.
As for what that mission might be... Well, there's one thing we know for sure it wasn't - namely, Borg-hunting. The E-E was in fact FORBIDDEN from fighting the Borg by Starfleet.
Sure, Picard said he was the problem, not the ship. But if that were literally true, then Starfleet would surely have ordered Riker to put Picard in an escape pod, launch him into the Romulan Neutral Zone, and take command of the ship and fly it to Earth ASAP...
quote:Originally posted by Timo: The E-E was in fact FORBIDDEN from fighting the Borg by Starfleet.
Sure, Picard said he was the problem, not the ship. But if that were literally true, then Starfleet would surely have ordered Riker to put Picard in an escape pod, launch him into the Romulan Neutral Zone, and take command of the ship and fly it to Earth ASAP....
Ok I haven't laughed this hard for a long time............
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
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posted
This is a Tech question. You'll find it in S&T.
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Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Timo: The E-E was in fact FORBIDDEN from fighting the Borg by Starfleet.
Sure, Picard said he was the problem, not the ship. But if that were literally true, then Starfleet would surely have ordered Riker to put Picard in an escape pod, launch him into the Romulan Neutral Zone, and take command of the ship and fly it to Earth ASAP....
Ok I haven't laughed this hard for a long time............
Very much so.
Also a good point - if it really is one of only a handful of "ultra-fanboy-battleships" they aren't going to have it out scanning empty space during the big fight.
Tech analysis by plot point - what a hobby we have....
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quote:Originally posted by Toadkiller: I've sort of wondered in fact if the E-E is really a step up for Picard and co. or if Star Fleet just wanted to keep the Enterprise name so they put it on a somewhat more sturdy/less flashy ship in the hope that J-L won't bash it up as much.
I pretty much feel the same way. Although I otherwise like the Sovereign-class, it strikes me as being overall a cheap and inferior package to the Galaxy-class. The Galaxy-class would even have superior armament if it was equipped with qtorps and the latest phaser arrays. My opinion is that the Sovereign-class was never intended to be the successor to the Galaxy but instead, in the long term, might be a true replacement for the Excelsior-class.
posted
I think the Ent-E was still largely incomplete. At the beginning of First Contact, they did mention that the ship was on a shakedown cruse for ONE YEAR. Most apparently, it wouldn't be on such a cruse unless some major issues came up that needed fixed over and over again, as well as possible missing components and integration problems. Perhaps the Fed didn't think the ship could hold its' own very well in a Borg Battle.
Remember in the movie how a Borg landing party arrived in Engineering. Wouldn't they have been detected, many wonder... Well, what if that system was conviently screwing up again?
Also, in Engineering... rupture a single cooling conduit near the warp core and kill ALL ORGANIC MATTER in the area? That must have been some sort of flaw that was still being solved... Considering that the Ent-E lost the warp core in Insurrection, it would be interesting to see how it was redesigned, or if it was redesigned at all...
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"Starfleet has every confidence in the Enterprise..."
They didn't have any reason to lie to Picard, you know. I'm sure he has enough pull at HQ to get a straight, blunt answer. As for why the Borg weren't detected beaming in...they're the Borg. They more or less do what they please. No alarms went off when they beamed into engineering on the last Enterprise either.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
But also remember that the Enterprise-E managed to sustain multiple direct hits from the Borg weapons. Yeah, Starfleet probably improved the shield technology a bit since BOBW -- but there were also other ships getting swatted down like so many flies. (Yeah yeah, there's the old we-didn't-see-the-whole-battle excuse...)
However, I don't think that the Sovereign Class was supposed to be a replacement for the Galaxy, per se -- but rather a supplement in certain areas. Though the Enterprise-D was able to hold its own in most of the battles it fought, it seems that there were a few vulnerabilities in the design for combat missions. Maybe Starfleet commissioned a new "battlecruiser" class... originally in anticipation of a second Borg invasion, but there weren't enough ships built by DS9 to be in widespread service in the Dominion War battles (that we saw).
As for the "patrolling the Neutral Zone" problem... well... Admiral Hayes ordering the -E to stay at the NZ demonstrates the kind of tactical genius that explains why his ship was destroyed in Earth orbit...
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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EdipisReks
Ex-Member
posted
i agree that the Sovereign was in no way a replacement for the Galaxy. hell, the Sovie doesn't even have half the internal volume necessary for some of the Galaxy class missions! the ship definirely has a substantialy different mission. i think of it [the Sovereign class] as a Ship of the Line, where as the Galaxy is a true exploration ship that also has enough teeth to take on the enemy. Timo, where can we hear more about this intriguing Captain Nowan?
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quote:At the beginning of First Contact, they did mention that the ship was on a shakedown cruse for ONE YEAR.
It was Crusher that questioned if Starfleet felt the E-E needed more shakedown time. And Geordi that stated that they've been out for a year. Though it highly suggests they're still on their sharkedown cruise, it does not mean they actually were. You could interpret Crusher's line as meaning another shakedown cruise just as long or short as the previous.
And it was not Hayes' ship that was destroyed. He didn't have one. We saw Hayes later on in a Voyager episode. It was the flagship that was destroyed... though Riker said it was the admiral's ship. It was most likely another admiral.
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Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
Well, just because Hayes's ship was destroyed doesn't mean that Hayes himself couldn't have made it to an escape pod and spent the remainder of the battle staring uselessly out a window while Picard rode to his rescue...
Another reason why the Sovereign Class can't be a replacement for the Galaxy Class is because of the design time. Starfleet spent more than 10 years designing the nuts and bolts of biggest starship built... I don't think they could design and build a complete successor to the GCS in just a few short years -- especially given that the GCS was intended for a 100 year life span and there was no firm plan for a replacement to the GCS at the time that the TNG Tech Manual was published. (Not completely canon, I know...)
Of course, it's believable that Starfleet designed the Sovereign as a rush-job to fill their defensive gaps... and perhaps the Sovereign's smaller size with respect to the Galaxy hints at the compromises made to make build times faster?
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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