Jim Phelps
watches Voyager AFTER 51030
Member # 102
posted
Stationmaster: we've seen how important the Defiant is...goes off in one ep and replaced by a new one in the next, different name, different registry, just like a runabout. Rio Grande was never destroyed to my knowledge.
As far as the rest is concerned...what else can be said? We know how all the basic systems work, so Rick simply noted the modifications. The Danube section is clear enough, the Defiant section should not be read by anyone other than Defiant experts (you've gotta be real picky...), the DS9 section makes sense. I don't know if you have any specific examples to mention.
What Rick could have done is do something other than a tech manual - what would be more useful is a DS9 sketchbook, containing interviews with the model makers, construction info. I don't think we really want Rick to get involved with specs, because he will never get them completely right (by the mere virtue of not having enough time). What we really want is access to all the production information, which would allow us to arrive at better conclusions about tech.
The First One
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed
Member # 35
posted
Exactly. I'm with Goffy on this - it's not whether or not this ship with a resemblance to the Defiant Pathfinder should exist or whether it should be called the Nova-class. . . it's the sheer thoughtlessness they've exhibited.
Like it or not, they HAVE held up the TNGTM as being very accurate and representing what Starfleet 'thinks.' If the DP was originally created to be in the DS9TM, then its appearance on Voyager should have been handles better. If it was always going to be the ship o'psychos in Voyager, then it shouldn't have appeared as padding in the DS9TM.
And furthermore, there seems to be a double standard operating here. The appearance of the DP in the DS9TM is being held up as completely justified and not jeopardising its veracity in the slightest, while the mention of the Nova in the TNGTM is to be ignored because the TNGTM doesn't matter anymore.
This may be something to do with the same phenomenon seen when there was just TOS and TNG - the devaluing, even ridiculing, of the former for the benefit of the latter. Now we have a whole bunch of people holding up how wonderful DS9 is - after all, they have lots of cool battles where bad people get killed. . .
But I digress. The point is, there has to be more to the way they represent the technical side of things than just making sure it's of a certain class and it's registry is believeable! Heck, they can't even do THAT right! At this rate, they'll be at the level of SW, with its flash suppressors on laser guns. . .
posted
I always wonder where people get the idea from that Star Trek is at all consistent. Look at those Nitpickers Guides. Big chunky books. You call that consistent? Oh please.
Voyager isn't any more inconsistent than DS9 or TNG and it's a whole load more consistent than TOS ever was.
What is wrong with this ship being called Nova class? It means that the name Nova can't be applied to the space filler sketches in the back of the TNG TM. Big deal.
What is wrong with this ship having very similar design to the Defiant Pathfinder? It means that two different ships were designed (but only one built) with the same spacaframe. Seems like a good thing to me, not a bad thing.
The First One
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed
Member # 35
posted
If plot is all that matters, then why is this Forum here?
And I think you misunderstand what flash suppressors are for. They're to conceal your position, not protect you from blindness. And if you have a bright energy beam connecting the target and the shooter, that rather becomes moot. There's no way you can adequately protect against blindness with any sort of weapon, unless yo close your eyes while you fire.
Plus, the flash suppressor on the laser ghun in question in the SW tech manual in question quite obviously wasn't a flash suppressor. It was a blatant example of them just making stuff up.
And Trek IS going that way. Have you seen the Fact Files? No new information, often the text is badly adapted from ploy synopses. . . yes, they do have good diagrams, but have you seen the labels they put on them?! "Ooh, look, it's a nacelle. And this hexagon thing is an escape pod. . ."
posted
My comments- The Nova Class design is fine for me. I am not asking the production team of Star Trek to be creative. They don't have the time to be creative.
The Fact Files and the Star Trek: The Magazine are essentially identical-glossy publications with very fine drawings, sparsely written descriptions, and a lack of additional information. I don't know the currency rate on the Fact Files; however, the ST: TM is very expensive-about eight dollars for an issue. The average magazine price is between four and five dollars.
Lee: Plot isn't the only thing that matters, and no one has said otherwise. But we don't want extensive explanations of stuff in the show, because that will lead to inconsistencies more often than not, and is generally boring. I want to see something in use, not to hear about how it would work. How it works should come later.
And if there's a flash suppressor on the gun, it will still obscure the exact origin of the blast/beam/whatever unless you're looking directly at it.
------------------ http://frankg.dgne.com/ "CORUSCANT...DOES NOT COMPUTE...I mean, uh, you're under arrest." - Anonymous battle droid
Jim Phelps
watches Voyager AFTER 51030
Member # 102
posted
I think what Frank means is that all of us share this nice little (yet meaningless) little hobby of explaining what we see onscreen. The producers, however, are simply trying to make a show and communicate a dramatic point to viewers. They make liberal use of advantages of the medium to communicate certain ideas (i.e. by changing scales of ships or using technobabble in a way that won't be noticable by the average viewer).
It is only us (and the technical consultants who need to have some working numbers for model compositing etc) who care to work out details such as ship lengths. In the end, the only reason we know that the Enterprise-D is 2108' long is because somebody needs to know how many windows to install on the miniature. As I noted in the 'Cardie shuttle scale' thread, they could have just as well skipped this step and went on to scale the ship differently next to every ship, whichever size works best. Nobody would have noticed the difference, and maybe nobody really cared about the 2108' back in TNG, we've never checked this one, really.
True, Rick also likes to have fun and work out the rest of the details, but to him, this is a mere exercise and not a full-fledged hobby. Maybe the tech has degraded, but explanation was never a priority either. To conclude, we shouldn't expect much from the producers, and would be best off asking if they would kindly release as much production sketches and info as possible, so we can carry out the analysis to our satisfaction.
Boris
[This message was edited by Boris on May 24, 1999.]
posted
For me, ship lengths is one of those trees in the proverbial forest. I love the forest and I love to know the general characteristics of the forest. Yet I have no desire to know the characteristics of the individual trees. There are far too many trees. I do agree that some trees are ill-the chronology, the ship lengths, etc.
[This message was edited by Trinculo on May 24, 1999.]
posted
You raise some good points ID Crisis. You are definatly right about the whole Nova Class mess, it doesn't invalidate the TNGTM, it just means the new ship can't be called Nova Class. Big deal! *rolls eyes* It is true that there is no source that is more official than the TV show itself. I still say look at the good aspects of the show, don't always look at the bad!
IP: Logged
posted
It does invalidate it, because the TM suggested that the name Nova was being held in reserve for the Galaxy's replacement in a century. If they wanted to use the name, why didn't they use it for just the ship, not the entire class?!
Trinculo: You don't want the producers to be creative?! What kind of statement is that?! What is the purpose of a television show, other than to present something creative each week?! If you don't want creativity, why don't they just make one episode and keep rerunning it every week for seven years?!
------------------ "There's always a bigger fish..." -Qui-Gon Jinn, Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace
posted
They could have called the class of this new ship - Bradbury class - since we know that this was a new ship back in 2367 (season 4 TNG)
Andrew
------------------ "I was not elected to watch my people suffer and die, while you discuss this invasion in a committee" Queen Amidala - Star Wars: Episode 1, The Phantom Menace
posted
I have no problem with the Nova class name, I assume the development team of the small science ship just "stole" the name from the big project. There is not necessarily a contradiction to the TNGTM which I regard as canon. Nevertheless, the ship could have been any other class.
------------------ "No, thanks. I've had enough. One more cup and I'll jump to warp." (Janeway, asked if she would like some coffee in "Once upon a Time") www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/
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