posted
The Borg threat and consequently the Dominion threat caused an abandonment of the Nova development project - instead - a newer and 'lesser new tech' ship - The Sovereign Class was commenced and the Nova name was available to be taken by anyone who wanted it.
------------------ "I was not elected to watch my people suffer and die, while you discuss this invasion in a committee" Queen Amidala - Star Wars: Episode 1, The Phantom Menace
posted
So by contradicting one little space filler reference this new episode has invalidated the whole TM? That's what you guys seeem to be saying judging by the vehemence of your messages.
The First One
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed
Member # 35
posted
To take a line from Jane Austen, it was badly done.
The section on the Nova-class was just what ID says, filler. But it inspired countless fans to design their own versions of the ship, and thereby launched who knows how many of the 'careers' of some of the ship designers who'se work we've seen on the internet. There are so many names they could have used for the class of the Equinox (a name, in fact, that I had plans for, even if Adam did reject it for a member of his Eclipse-class as not a good name for a starship!). . . why use Nova?! THAT is what I object to.
Now, the Defiant Pathfinder. . . it's an interesting design, but to then reincarnate it as a science vessel barely six months after it appeared in the DS9TM seems clumsy. Apparently the Equinox doesn't have many crew on board, although this could be because there are very few surviving ones. But they could instead have said it was the Defiant prototype, brought back into action in the face of the Dominion threat and on its test flight (just as the Prometheus was, which also had very few crew). That might have worked better. I could see an experimental warship surviving a lot better in the Delta Quadrant than a next-generation Oberth.
But what strikes me above all else is how all of a sudden it only takes one new starship in Voyager to get us all talking again. It seems to me that all this episode will ever mean to any of you is another page to add to your website, another name on your list, and that saddens me. Trek used to be about more than that. . .
posted
Yeah, Trek used to be about people and plots and stuff like that. But now it's all about hardware and guns and sexy borg...
The Equinox couldn't be the Defiant prototype as the Defiant is the Defiant prototype. The pathfinder in the DS9 TM was never built. And as it's apparantly been in the Delta quad since about 2367 this class will actually predate the Defiant.
It seems more and more likely that the Defiant grew out of the Defiant pathfinder which grew out of the (probably brand new) Nova class science vessel. The DS9 TM mentions a four nacelled courier version of the Defiant Pathfinder, (despite my remembering and quoting Rick when he described a four nacelled Defiant) so this is obviously a rather successful design (just not suited for Borg fighting).
So they used the name Nova. Big deal. The Romulans had a Nova class back in the 2280s according to FASA. My own fictional (non-Trek) starship stories used a Nova class years before the TNG TM came out. It's a cool name. Of course they could have used another name. I'd like to see a Cosmos class, or a Starlight class (more ships from my non-Trek fiction). But hey, it's not worth all this griping.
------------------ -->Identity Crisis<--
[This message was edited by Identity Crisis on May 25, 1999.]
posted
You could just as easily say that the TNG folks invalidated their OWN technical manual when they made the Enterprise-E a Sovreign Class instead of a Nova, rather than blaming this on the Voyager or DS9 folks.
I mean, they certainly KNEW about their own tech manual. And they certainly made First Contact LONG before anybody came up with the Defiant pathfinder, OR using a ship caled "Nova Class" on Voyager.
So, by this "The TNG Tech Manual is Canon, and MUST BE FOLLWED" reasoning, it was First Contact that is behind the downfall of Star Trek as we know it.
so :P
[Of course, "Sovreign" is a more impressive-sounding name than "Nova" anyway. ("No va" in spanish being "It doesn't go.")]
**irrelevant detail** - those of us who are fond of DC's "Elseworlds" comic stories will know that "Sovreign" has been used as an alternate-universe name for "Superman." This may be one of the reasons I prefer it.
------------------ You're just JEALOUS because the little voices talk to ME!
posted
I would also propose that it is likely that the DP was not "reincarnated" as the Equinox, but rather, a preliminary sketch for the Equinox was swiped and used as a picture for the DP in the DS9 manual, and they hoped we wouldn't notice. (Just like so much of the other ship stuff, like those kitbashed ships, also thrown in there, was crap.)
That wouldn't surprise me, considering the quality of the ships section of said manual. I would blame the writers of the book, not the makers of the show.
------------------ You're just JEALOUS because the little voices talk to ME!
posted
Unlikely considering production time scales, etc. I find it hard to believe that they even had a plot outline for this episode before they sent the DS9 TM to the printers let alone a ship design.
posted
There is a terrible tendency among fans that when they hear about something they don't like, they go ballistic. This is unfortunate and when a discussion turns ballistic I leave. Before I leave, I want to say one thing. Many of the recent plots, especially on Voyager, are recycled ideas. Yes, the Nova Class design is a recycle starship design. However, consider this, a production team on a show has only a few weeks to make a starship design, have the design ready for shooting via CGI, and at the same time work on other projects. Sternbach does what he can and he does good work. I don't expect him to be able to do what a movie production team can do. A movie production team has a greater length of time to design and shoot ships. In other words, STOP BASHING THE PRODUCTION TEAM FOR THE TV SERIES FOR REHASHING STARSHIP DESIGNS
IP: Logged
posted
Indeed. Look at when ships were introduced from the start of TNG onwards:
Year 1: Galaxy and Constellation. Year 2. No starfleet vessels. Year 3: Ambassador Year 4: Nebula (and Wolf 359 kitbashes) Year 5: no starfleet vessels. Year 6: Sydney (if you count it) and Danube. Year 7: No starfleet vessels. Year 8: Defiant and Intrepid (and Excelsior variant). Year 9: No starfleet vessels Year 10: Sovereign, Akira, Steamrunner, Norway, Sabre, Yeager (if you count it) Year 11: Prometheus, Centaur, Shelley, Year 12: Nova.
With the Attack fighter first being seen in Year 7 and first seen in Starfleet service in year 10.
Apart from the glut of ships that First Contact gave us we've had an average of one ship a year.
The First One
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed
Member # 35
posted
Yes. Good list, BTW - I was thinking about that recently, but hadn't had time to put it together that way. A couple of points:
The Defiant Pathfinder wasn't the prototype for the Defiant, I know - a poor choice of words. Say a testbed, rather. . .
Yes, Nova is a good name. Maybe it's better to use it and contradict the TNGTM, I don't know. But there must be a lot of pissed off Nova designers out there. . .
Firsty, you're being facetious by saying that the existence of the Sovereign contradcits the TNGTM. The class isn't meant to replace the Galaxy, which is meant to have a service life of more than a hundred years. At 'this' stage, the Nova-class design project (as was - we must now assume it doesn't exist anymore) could only be in the concept stage, since the tech of a hundred years hence can only be guessed at.
Is it worth getting so het up about? No, but the fact remains: their willingness to invalidate yet another part of the TNGTM, long held up as being damn near canon and therefore being worth buying, is yet another example of the way older Trek is now slated by fans (who are notoriously fickle) and TPTB (who have always resented the "not as good as TNG" tag that DS9 continues to have). Plus, it's another nail in the coffin of the DS9TM, which was always regarded as substandard.
posted
Nothing was ever written in stone about that ship being the next supership of the federation. Hell the Soverign by most looks seems to have done that already.
And I thought the rule was if it was not seen on the screen it was not considered cannon?>
I am sure they try to keep the inconsistences down to a miniumum but if consistences such as a ship name,verbal slip up or even some technical slip detracts from your enjoyment of the show than u are missing the show purpose of entertainment.
Is anyone going to walk out of a good show or movie they enjoy cause it is not consistent with what we see as cannon or as written in stone?.
And if they try to keep everything consistent, they would drive everyone on the production team as well as the writers mad trying to fit everything into the trek consistency. " Sorry u can't reuse that bridge set of the those ships because it was used as the USS Promethues and the NX Defiance and it can't be reused". "But we are shooting this epiisode tommorow and I got to start work on three others episodes!". "Sorry, u got to make new sets for the bridge of the Uss Nova".
Jim Phelps
watches Voyager AFTER 51030
Member # 102
posted
An idea: would it be possible to add a page-splitting function to the forums (i.e. Page 1: message 1-20, Page 2: message 21-40, etc), like in a search engine? These really take some time to download.
Boris
[This message was edited by Boris on May 25, 1999.]
posted
Boris: Say, that's not a bad idea... Oh, Chaaaaaarles! :-)
Okay, now back to the Nova. As Lee said, it's not the fact that they contradicted the TM that's the problem. They do that all the time when they need to make some piece of treknology work a certain way for a certain plot. However, npow they've gotten to the point where they (and appreantly a lot of people here) just don't care anymore. They say "Hey, it's just one page at the back of the book. Who cares what they wrote back then?". Pretty soon it'll be "Hey, it's just one episode. Who cares what they wrote back then?". Then "Hey, it's just one season...". "Hey, it's just one series...". Picking the name "Nova" had absolutely nothing to do w/ time constraints. I'm not even sure how that got into this conversation. All it means is that some writer liked the name and said "Screw the Tech Manual. I'm doing whatever I damn well please, and no-one can stop me.". That's the kind of attitude that's going to send Trek way downhill if it keeps up.
------------------ "Although I'm so tired, I'll have another cigarette. And curse Sir Walter Raleigh; he was such a stupid git." -the Beatles, "I'm So Tired"
Topic Closed
Printer-friendly view of this topic