posted
Here's my Illustrator version of Shiplist 1. The colors are the same as the ones from the second list. The Trieste's Class name was altered to be the corrected one. (No point in making a diagram with incorrect information, is there!)
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Spike, the cap you have there may in fact be the same list of ships, but from the trading card pic it's a physically different PADD (details) and the colors on the LCARS screen are vastly different than on the card. I wonder where specifically the trading card PADD made it into the show?
quote:Originally posted by SoundEffect: Spike, the cap you have there may in fact be the same list of ships, but from the trading card pic it's a physically different PADD (details) and the colors on the LCARS screen are vastly different than on the card. I wonder where specifically the trading card PADD made it into the show?
No, it looks the same to me. It's just that Picard is holding it upside-down.
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Several weeks ago I e-mailed Okuda about some of this stuff and here was his reply, which I received just before Christmas but didn't rememeber to post until now:
quote:Dear Kristofer:
Thanks for the note and for your thoughtful questions. I'll try to address some of your points:
Regarding differences in ship assignments, I'd simply assume that these were due to the fact that each chart was prepared at different times.
Regarding spelling of "Merrimack," it was originally spelled incorrectly in scripts and on my screens. Someone pointed out the error, and we fixed it in later versions. In general, I prefer to regard material on screen as "authoritative," but in this case, since the writer of the episode clearly intended to honor a real ship and its crew, it seemed appropriate to make it historically accurate, even if it meant changing something that was established on screen.
I seem to recall that I changed the class listing of the Trieste because we did indeed see a U.S.S. yosemite in a TNG episode, and it was clearly a re-use of the Grissom model. I think you're the first person to catch this particular change. (Or at least, you're the first to point it out to me!)
Some of the links you mentioned in your msg appear to be broken, but the images from the Captain's Chair and Interactive Tech Manual CDs were indeed photographed on the actual set. I'm pretty sure the Starlog stuff was also provided by the art department, too. Most of the Interactive Tech Manual images were, if I recall, photographed just a few weeks before the TNG sets were demolished to make room for Voyager. I believe that the Captain's Chair images of the Enterprise-D were mostly re-uses of material originally shot for the Interactive Tech Manual, since the Captain's Chair was made after the sets were gone.
Regarding the ship chart in the 1997/1999 Encyclopedia: Yes, there are typos in that chart. I did supervise the person who compiled the chart, but I did not rigorously check the data, so I allowed an unfortunate number of typos to slip through. In general, I'd tend to suggest that the data in the individual encyclopedia entries are more likely to be accurate. On the other hand, Margaret Clark, our editor at Pocket Books, caught and fixed a fair number of goofs on her own, so it's entirely possible that there are things in the chart that are more accurate than some of the individual encyclopedia entries. (I personally typed the chart in the first edition of the Encyclopedia, so any typos there are entirely my own.)
The change in the Ahwahnee's registry was my mistake. I was probably working from handwritten notes and couldn't read my writing. I don't recall the specific reason that I conjectured that the Endeavour was at Wolf 359. I did have reasons, however tenuous, for each ship listed to have been in that battle, but in some cases these reasons were tenuous, indeed.
In some cases, they were listings in scripts that were changed before the episodes were aired. (I believe the U.S.S. Chekov falls into that category. It was mentioned in the script, and the line was filmed, but was edited out of the final episode.) In others, I listed names that were on models that were filmed in the graveyard scene, but were never legible on screen. This last was fairly complicated because the graveyard scene was filmed at least twice (three times, if you count some visual effects re-dos) .
You may recall that "The Best of Both Worlds, Part II" was somewhat ambiguous as to the exact number and names of ships that survived. Later episodes of TNG, DS9, and VGR all gave additional clues that may have contradicted assumptions that I made when I did art for earlier episodes. This sort of change was fairly common, but was, I hope, seldom noticed, except by detail-oriented fans like yourself. Still, I did a reasonable amount of attention to getting these details as consistent as possible, specifically because I thought fans would enjoy it. Nevertheless, given the perpetual crunch of TV production, I never really had time to figure things out in rigrous detail, so these things are inevitable.
Anyway, thanks again for your note, and I hope that this gives some insight into the nature of the process.
Take care and hope your holidays are happy.
-Mike Okuda
So, according to this, the changing of the Ahwahnee's registry was simply a mistake and really had nothing to do with adjusting the registry range to fit the timeframe. For now at least, I'm going back to listing the ship as NCC-73620. (It just happens to be my personal preference that when a studio model and computer display or other graphic are in conflict, the model should take precedence unless it is a case of clear-cut mislabeling like the Brattain.)
I'm not sure whether he's aware that Starfleet would appear to be just continuing an historical trend by calling the ship Merrimac.
Was TNG really "ambiguous" about how many ships survived Wolf 359? I thought it was pretty cut & dried. (BoBW said 40 ships were rallied for the battle, and "The Drumhead" said that 39 of those ships were destroyed, correct?) Did we just mis-interpret a line or something?
Unfortunately, he wasn't able to give me any specifics for when the assignment list display first started being used. (Spike, et al: Any luck examining the DVDs for evidence?)
-MMoM
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Hanson said "We're massing a fleet of 40 ships." Whether he meant exactly 40 or around 40 is up in the air. It also seemed to be Federation only ships, and I'm sure that there have been suggestions that Klingon ships might have been at Wolf 359 as well.
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MMoM: Thanks for the post from Okuda. That makes sense with the Yosemite Class from the earlier graphic (that I'm currently looking at from the Starlog TNG Magazine #15. Does anyone still need a scan of that graphic?)
Since Okuda has been willing to help us out with our ship lists and clarifications from different published materials, do you think it would be possible to posts his replies on a website somewhere so when we go back to do research we are not searching through a ton of old threads on the message board?
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Registered: Mar 1999
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Well, generally I include any relevent info from Okuda, Sternbach, et al in the annotations of my shiplist. The actual text of the message simply boils down to what is written there, in most cases.
-MMoM
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