posted
Fissionable reaction mass?! You can't fission ammonia! I think that there would be a solid fission core and ammonia would be pumped into that... and ejected as thrust.
I could be wrong... Happens sometimes.
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: The reactor systems are lifted from the description of those of the Discovery from 2001 -- a chamber that uses gaseous ammonia as the fissionable reaction mass, carried in slush tanks along the spine of the ship. I don't know what bearing that would have on your Charybdis design though...
--Jonah
-------------------- Like A Bat Out Of Hell...
Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
Don't think the Valiant was swept there, but went there under her own warp power. It would have taken a long time, but I don't recall her ever being brought there by any other means. What are the dates regarding her anyway?
-------------------- Is it Friday yet?
Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged
posted
I am super useful! Only, perhaps not. My list thingy only contains information from within TOS and its attendant films, and no exterior facts, whether from spin off shows or extra-televisual items. So the exact date isn't on here, just ones I could derive from various clues over the run of the show/films. But the relative dates are, which are just as useful.
quote:Where No Man Has Gone Before BST 400-200 "Nightingale Woman" written by Tarbolde on the Canopius planet CE 1996 (1)
BE 210-190 S.S. Valiant lost CE 2006-2186 CE 2061-2154 CE 1970-1990 CE 2057-2194
BE 33 Gary Mitchell born (2) Stardate 1087.7 CE 2163-2363 CE 2238-2311 CE 2147 CE 2234-2251
BE 31 Elizabeth Dehner born (2) Stardate 1089.5 CE 2165-2365 CE 2240-2313 CE 2149 CE 2236-2253
BE 23 Gary Mitchell born (2) Stardate 1087.7 CE 2153-2353 CE 2248-2321 CE 2157 CE 2244-2261
BE 21 Elizabeth Dehner born (2) Stardate 1089.5 CE 2155-2355 CE 2250-2323 CE 2159 CE 2246-2263
BE 15 Kirk and Mitchell meet, presumably at the academy (3) CE 2181-2381 CE 2256-2329 CE 2165 CE 2252-2269
ST 0+13 days, September 3-9 (4) "Where No Man Has Gone Before" Stardate 1312.4-1313.8 CE 2196-2396 CE 2271-2344 CE 2180 CE 2267-2284
1.) Mitchell gives the date of the poem and then mentions it was the most romantic written in the "past couple of centuries." My purely arbitrary definition of couple is two to four. 2.) It seems highly unlikely that Mitchell and Dehner were 23 and 21, respectively, during the episode, regardless of the ages given on their files. 3.) Mitchell's description of his academy years make it sound like he had not met Kirk prior to attending. It is interesting to note that if Mitchell met Kirk during his first year, and we assume from evidence in TNG that most people go to the academy at the age of 18, Mitchell would be 33 during the episode, which seems like a more reasonable age for a Lieutenant Commander and XO. If we're adding ten years to Mitchell's age, it doesn't seem unreasonable to do the same for Dr. Dehner, making her 31. 4.) Based on each episode being roughly thirteen days apart, with no delay between the first and second pilots.
We get two different and mutually exclusive stardate schemes here. The first, appearing on the personnel files Spock reviews, suggest that one stardate equals one year. By that scheme, Mitchell was 226 years old when he died, and the episode itself took over a year.
Kirk's date of birth, as given by his tombstone and as near as I can make out, is stardate 1277.1.
That was probably unnecessary, but I am a small and petty person.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
The Valiant certainly wasn't sent to deliberately sail to the Barrier - Kirk was very emotional about how it was "impossible" that an Earth vessel other than his own starship would be in this region of space.
OTOH, the mission of the Valiant was intended to be a multi-year one, if we believe Kirk when he says the ship was launched "over" 200 years ago and lost "almost" 200 years ago. And Kirk could reach the barrier within no more than two years out of his reputed five-year mission (that's the maximum time we can allocate - the TOS episodes we saw could have spanned more than three years, and then there's TAS). Heck, in later episodes, he seemed to return to the Barrier in a matter of hours. So it doesn't sound impossible for the Valiant to do the same within a few decades. Why was the feat "impossible" nevertheless? Was two-three decades completely beyond the endurance limit of a pre-TOS vessel?
Dialogue establishes that the Valiant was hit by a "magnetic storm". While there's nothing there to indicate that this storm seriously displaced the ship (apart from throwing her across the Barrier), there's nothing to say it didn't. Perhaps "magnetic storm" is what a wormhole-type anomaly would look like to the inexperienced 21st century starship commander.
quote:Originally posted by Topher: Sol, what do all those dates mean in your chronology thing? I'm assuming BST means Before Star Trek, but what about BE?
-------------------- Like A Bat Out Of Hell...
Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: The reactor systems are lifted from the description of those of the Discovery from 2001 -- a chamber that uses gaseous ammonia as the fissionable reaction mass, carried in slush tanks along the spine of the ship. I don't know what bearing that would have on your Charybdis design though...
--Jonah
Oh don't worry about that, it's still little more than a sketch. I fully intend to go back and redraw everything aft of the antenna. If anyone can find a basic diagram of this type of engine it would be very helpful to that end.
posted
Regarding the Valiant: According to Mandel's charts the nearest point of the galactic barrier is about 2250 light years away from earth. Given that this is a circa 2065 ship it's maximum speed would probably been something like warp 2 (TNG Scale, I don't know what the TOS scale looks like). That 10xls they would have made it to the barrier in 22.5 years, hardly swept. A wormhole would be a consistent answer since as has already been pointed out, a primitive warp ship might not have sensors advanced enough or a crew with enough space experience to recognise a wormhole it came up and bit them on the nacelle...which apparently, is precisely what this one did.
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: Regarding the Valiant: According to Mandel's charts the nearest point of the galactic barrier is about 2250 light years away from earth. Given that this is a circa 2065 ship it's maximum speed would probably been something like warp 2 (TNG Scale, I don't know what the TOS scale looks like). That 10xls they would have made it to the barrier in 22.5 years, hardly swept.
Math error!
2250 * 10 = 225
Also, Warp 2 in the old scale is 8c based on the "warp factor cubed" formula.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
| IP: Logged
quote:Originally posted by Reverend: A wormhole would be a consistent answer since as has already been pointed out, a primitive warp ship might not have sensors advanced enough or a crew with enough space experience to recognise a wormhole
It's also a plausible explanation that since Warp technology then was still in its infancy, and we know by 2271 that even with two centuries with the technology, the refit Enterprise was able to inadvertently create a wormhole with their warp drive, the Valiant with inferior engines could've done the same!
posted
Stupid brain fart, I knew I should have used a calculator. It's just hard to reach the buttons from inside this straight jacket. I could say that it was a typo but you wouldn't belive me...better to claim stupidity than incompetance.
Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to put my life savings into internet stock.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
