quote:Originally posted by Vogon Poet: Me too. There is precedent for the name used by a former class ship being given to a new ship of another class (the Yeager thing).
Actually, Vogon, the term "Yeager-class" is strictly a fandom invention.
But I don't see how that has any bearing whatsoever on this Nova issue. Am I to understand that there is some sort of belief that the names of class ships cannot be re-used on later ships of different classes? Preposterous. Obviously, a class name could not be re-used for another class prototype, but for any other vessel? Of course it could. Where has it EVER been said or implied that the names of class vessels could not be re-used?
I didn't realize that that question had even come up. If that's the argument someone's using to say the Nova must be a Nova-class vessel, then that makes the entire debate that much more lame.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Cpt. Kyle Amasov: I wish we had seen more of this "Archer" though. What do you think is the ship's dedication? "Oh Boy!"? "Screwing continuity since 2151."? Or maybe "I'm quite scared of Klingots."?
The dedication could have been that famous "gazelle speech" or some speech that opens up with "my dad once said..." or "there's an old Earth saying..."
How about "No more cheese for you...."
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
We do know more about the Nova-class. Do not forget official and backstage sources. Only unofficial sources can be dismissed out of hand, because they're obviously fan-fiction which has to compete with my own fan-fiction. Does that hold true for the dedication plaque of the Equinox likewise, or even the TNGTM?
Okuda did say that the dedication plaque of the Equinox reads Noble-class, a name which also appears in some of the early sketches. Furthermore, the TNGTM is an official source stating that the Nova-class development project was intended as a Galaxy replacement project around 2367. Rick Sternbach furthermore confirms that the Equinox design was directly based on the pathfinder, not the Nova-class Galaxy Replacement Project. Why ignore these statements?
Here, we have official evidence suggesting that the Nova-class couldn't have been the original class name of the Equinox and Rhode Island. This was probably why some people came up with Noble-class in the first place. There is also the very strong possibility that the Rhode Island has a different class name, given the number of examples where what some people call variants are actually different classes.
If the Equinox was originally a ship of the Noble-class, it becomes perfectly clear why the Nova should have a higher registry number -- it was a later design into which the Equinox was refitted. What if the Rhode Island belongs to Noble-class, and the Equinox was merely refitted to Nova-class specs shortly before disappearing? Of course, the Rhode Island could easily be a third class, and the original Noble-class could've been extremely similar to the later Nova-class.
It's absolutely false to think that non-canon sources can be ignored or accepted at whim. Whim is subjective, meaning that you'd be writing fan fiction if you arbitrarily accepted or ignored something. Here, the official sources support the canon. Why ignore them?
Boris
[ January 12, 2003, 03:51: Message edited by: Boris ]
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posted
Boris, I actually think you've got a good idea here. But there's a difference between saying "Wow, that's a neat idea!" and "Wow, that's what the production guys must have been thinking when they made that display!"
You're correct in stating that your theory fits the facts. And I'm sure that there could be several variations of that theory that might fit the facts even better. But that's just the point: anyone can come up with an explanantion for why something is if you think about it long enough. In this case, you've thought of a neat way to reconcile a host of little tidbits that have been dropped by Sternbach, Okuda, etc. I like your thinking on this one. I know I was a little snappy before, but I see that your argument is at least somewhat logical (if also somewhat lateral) now. But I'm afraid it can't go any further than that. Your theory is still just your theory, and even if I agree with it or even if every single person on this board agreed with it unanimously, it remains a fan theory that really has no impact at all on an objective view of the onscreen facts.
Now, if we somehow found out who exactly made the display from Nemesis, and we talked to them asked about the Nova, and he/she told us that she intended the ship to be the class prototype but didn't notice the registry, then we might get somehwere. But, as it stands, I don't think we can just assume that. Nor do I think we can just assume that your theory is true.
I guess I've been kind of guilty of this kind of thing before myself. I even went so far as to put some things in my shiplist that probably don't rightfully belong there, such as the bit about the Bozeman being refitted to Miranda-class or the glitches in the Enterprise-A being attributable to age rather than hasty construction, because they happened to be theories that fell in line with my thinking. Oh well...
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
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posted
MMOM: It's rather defeatist to say that just because the producers don't always have the time or aren't willing to come up with theories that fit all the facts, we should be trying to second- guess their thinking and ignore the advantage we have -- the knowledge of full facts on any subject.
A few years ago, it was thought impossible to create a detailed map of the Star Trek galaxy. The writers and Okuda would never listen, that was the word. However, Christian Ruehl actually did it and what happened? Geoffrey Mandel didn't waste time turning the project into a book.
The DS9TM was done without fan input. Bernd decided to create the Starship Database. Rick Sternbach adopted a few data points into his article.
However, if no fan attempts to do anything of the above, the producers will have no source to draw from and will certainly continue to make up simplistic theories. They don't have the time, but unlike us, they do have the official license to create what they do not research.
posted
Okay, I see your point. But let's just keep in mind what's speculation and what's not. I don't want to see any myths created that people somewhere down the road mistake for official stuff. (Like the whole Yeager-class thing, or the TVH Intrepid being a Miranda, etc.)
After a good night's rest, (I was pretty tired yeaterday) I realize that I kind of sounded like a Nazi. Sorry.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
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posted
I think the simplest and most obvious reason why the registry number of the Nova, listed on this particular graphic is that it is a simple typo or mistake due to lack of research or bad handwriting. It wouldn't be the first error on this graphic, as Okuda himself has already noted there are several.
Given that there are two other known class prototypes on this list it appears as though it was the author's intention to also include the Nova-Class prototype. I seriously doubt that any thought was given in regards to this being ANOTHER U.S.S. Nova, either as a Nova-Class or indeed any other class.
If we can ignore such an obvious mistake as the misspelling or Ares along with a number of such mistakes made throughout the years then we can certainly ignore this one.
Of course we can't know for sure if it was indeed an error until it is confirmed by the artist but I think it's safe to say that it's a safe bet.
Oh and Mim: Try and stay calm, breathe a little more often.
posted
While we know Aries to be a misspelling, the correct form does not have to be Ares. It still could be Aries as I've typed already... Aries being a Zodiac sign and not the mythological god.
-------------------- Is it Friday yet?
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quote:Originally posted by Reverend: I think the simplest and most obvious reason why the registry number of the Nova, listed on this particular graphic is that it is a simple typo or mistake due to lack of research or bad handwriting. It wouldn't be the first error on this graphic, as Okuda himself has already noted there are several.
Given that there are two other known class prototypes on this list it appears as though it was the author's intention to also include the Nova-Class prototype. I seriously doubt that any thought was given in regards to this being ANOTHER U.S.S. Nova, either as a Nova-Class or indeed any other class.
I agree that the above is extremely likely the story behind this Nova. The question is whether we simply accept this typo/mistake rego or we come up with a fan-fic explanation for it.
posted
Just to set the record straight for those who argue from the ultra-purist canon viewpoint: what is the extent of our canon knowledge of "Nova class"?
I know "Equinox" has two clear verbal references that both say "The Equinox is a Nova class ship". But that doesn't give us the spelling, so we could still wriggle out of it. Do we see the name in writing anywhere? A random Okudagram? The MSD?
And is the name uttered or seen anywhere outside "Equinox"?
For all we know, the Equinox indeed is a Noble class vessel, and Janeway just didn't feel like closing her lips all the way down on the "b". Or then she is "a novel class of ship"...
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
So in other words, much as in the case of the Defiant in "Message in a Bottle" that couldn't possibly be THE Defiant, requiring us to think of another name starting with 'D-E-F-I,', we now have to think of a word that sounds like Nova?! And 'noble' just doesn't cut it as an alternative.
And, by the way, can someone please fill me in on why the Yeager isn't official anymore? Because I've always been under the impression that it was. Did I miss a meeting or something?
Perhaps the Equinox is actually Nova Scotia-class, and like the City of New Orleans-class, it got shortened. . . 8)
posted
Mabye the Equinox is really Nova and cream cheese on a onion bagel. It was just a mistake and only we of the insane starship community would catch it and rack our brains trying to make the registry number work. Grind you teeth and accept that they goofed.
...and the Yeager has to be canon: we have clear pics of the studio model and I already built mine in 2500th!!!
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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