posted
What I don't get is having the entire fleet of the 23rd century being just refitted ships? Well, of what we see of course. How big is the Federation in the 23rd century to have only a dozen or so Connies in the fleet? You have also a difference of 300 or so ships between the USS Constitution and the USS Excelsior with a 40 year gap betwen commissioning dates.
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
I don't think that the ENTIRE fleet was refitted... certainly some of them might have been given some kind of face-lift.
I think that in the case of the Constitutions, they decided that the ships were too good to relegate to second fiddle, and gave them upgrades instead.
I think that the Constellation-class was probably originally designed as it is... number 1974 is probably close enough to the year 2270 to let it be built from the keep up using the TMP style. The Miranda-class, on the other hand, probably looked like the TOS Enterprise originally, and was refitted before (or after) TMP along with the Connies.
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Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
Well, my point was simply that there are plenty of other designs for ships of the 2260's and surrounding time period WITHOUT the needless postulation of "unrefitted" versions of the movie-era ships.
Registered: Jun 2001
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...Although the later shows indicate that certain archetypes of ship designs are present in several ship generations. And thus it is only logical to say they could be found in the TOS generation as well.
The existence of a TOS "Miranda" is far from certain. But the likelihood of TOS Starfleet having multiple combat/exploration types in that size range is high, and the TOSified version of the Miranda design is readily available for this role...
quote:Originally posted by Matrix: What I don't get is having the entire fleet of the 23rd century being just refitted ships? Well, of what we see of course. How big is the Federation in the 23rd century to have only a dozen or so Connies in the fleet? You have also a difference of 300 or so ships between the USS Constitution and the USS Excelsior with a 40 year gap betwen commissioning dates.
I don't reckon all the ships were refits - just some of them... probably employing tech already worked out and then applied over to older ships like the Enterprise.
And the Excelsior - I believe would have been assigned/started on way back close to when the Constitution was commissioned/given a number. It's that it too SOO long to build and de-kink.
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quote:Originally posted by Harry: What this says is that Transwarp, in this context, means creating a stable wormhole effect. Cute theory.
Very interesting. That actually makes a whole lot of sense -- especially because the "failure" of the transwarp project does not necessarily mean that the Excelsior never managed to make it to transwarp. Instead, the transwarp engine could have simply proved impractical, unstable over long uses, or overly expensive in terms of resources and fuel.
Does anyone have a copy of Shane Johnson's "Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise"? Not the most accurate reference for some ideas, but it's got a good description of what the refit Enterprise was probably built like. One of the things it says in the end was that the Enterprise-A was equipped with transwarp drive, which WAS successfully tested by the Excelsior and implemented into other starships. But that theory is basically ignored today -- personally, I think it's silly that they'd automatically switch naming conventions and start calling "transwarp" "warp." It would just be too confusing.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: ...The Miranda-class, on the other hand, probably looked like the TOS Enterprise originally, and was refitted before (or after) TMP along with the Connies.
I've always thought it more likely that a pre-movie era Miranda would have a look similar to the half finished Phase II Enterprise, after all the old TOS look was already 20 years old by the mid 2260s.
quote: But that theory is basically ignored today -- personally, I think it's silly that they'd automatically switch naming conventions and start calling "transwarp" "warp." It would just be too confusing.
Why? It's just a different form of warp. At the time they needed to distinguish the two - but after all the ships got implemented with it - why not just go back to calling it warp. "Transwarp" is just "across warp" - so it was probably just a threshold thing. (Don't even THINK about that Voyager episode!)
Maybe Scotty didn't think it could be done. Like some said that the speed of sound or the speed of light couldn't be broken!
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
I suppose it depends too on whether you think that "Time-warp" (as said in "The Cage") was the same as regular warp, or not.
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Registered: Mar 1999
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I've heard tree theories about Transwarp. FASA's game suggested that it combined warp engine technology and transporter technology, to 'beam' the ship forward a little. Somewhere I heard that it was esentially a primative form of the Boerg Transwarp conduit. A novel (forget which) suggested that transwarp warped space a dimension higher then hyperspace, but was unstable.
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Registered: Nov 2002
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Yes, well, there's also the theory that transwarp involves knocking all the crew out, then turning back the clocks, so they think they got there faster than they did. But, then, I just made that one up. Which means it's only about as valid as, well... anything else.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Maybe the reason the Excelsior transwarp project was abandoned was when the original test crew all transformed into lizards after their first successful flight. The Federation was so embarrassed about the stupidity of the incident that they cancelled the project and surpressed all records of its existence.
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