quote:Originally posted by Timo: [QB] Yet these vessels seem to have gotten successors pretty rapidly after the class ship was launched, NCC-wise and (apart perhaps for the Excelsior, if we don't accept the ST4 spacedock scenes as proof that there were multiple Excelsiors there) timeline-wise.
The US makes new top secret aircraft by building one flight-ready plane and two or even three`copies at differing stages of completion. If the tests go smoothly, one of the copies will be given more strenous tests (often including the plane's destruction as a materials breaking strain test). Excelsior could have been starfleet's completed ship for the Transwarp trials while a few spaceframes were nearing completion. It cold also explain why there was a Excelsior variant so shortly after the class' inception.
quote: The Defiant would have the best excuse for being an experimental one-off originally, of course: she's so tiny she can afford to be a dud.
The Defiant was built in a time of percieved desperation for Starfleet. They'd taken a MAJOR loss to a threat that could have sent another Cube at any time.
quote: Why are there dozens of ship classes that appear identical in role and equipment?
That's like asking why the navy has dozens of ship classes for the same function: varaitions on a theme is the key to improving your fleet and add new technologies/ procedures without recalling older ships or introducing new tech that current crews are unfamilliar with.
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Variations on a general theme is the nature of any navy. Really the navies of today have four general classes: Carriers, Submarines, Cruisers and support vessels. Any of today's navy ships can be slotted into these general catagories just like terms like "explorer" could mean both the Galaxy and Constalation classes without any real conflict.
While it's possible to whip up names for any of the hundreds of variants and sub-classes used for specific roles, in the greater scheme, the overall goal of the organization remains the same.
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posted
I'm not clear on what you're getting at. I read your earlier post as claiming that the US Navy has many interchangable ship classes, a claim that so far as I can determine is simply not true. A Spruance does not do what an Arleigh Burke does, and so on.
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posted
I'm only stating that the overall goal is the same even when they're doing diffrent roles to achieve it.
The goal of starfleet is exploration so all the classes are really used to achieve this overall goal in some capacity, even if it's in a supporting role.
Starfleet really does have the interchangability (due to technological advances) that the Navy of today could not have. We're crossing our wires her somewhere in the semantics.
My point is that all the smaller parts (ships) are serving a single, greater purpose.
And that sleep is not to be taken for granted, it seems.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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quote:Originally posted by Reverend: I stand by my assertion that NAR is simply a registry code for civilian ships from earth or just the Sol System in general. It's the only consistent explanation.
...except that the USS Vico was seen with both an NAR registry AND Starfleet emblems...
Federation research vessel (based on its mission & class)
Federation civilian registry (based on its designation/registry...S.S./NAR)
Likely retired Starfleet vessel (based on its class and on the age of its class)
At the time assigned out of Starbase 514. (based on the dialog)
Based on this information acquired from the ep, the encyclopedia and the "official" website we get what seems to be:
A former SF vessel, retired and possibly donated or bequeathed to civilians, and given a non-Starfleet specific registry.
The best example that comes to mind is the joint effort made between SF and the Federation in 'Project Genesis'. In much the same way, the Vico could have been working with SF in some sort of joint operation like the Regula I Station (aka SS Vico) operated in the interests of the Federation and in cooperation with the Reliant (aka SB 514) but still independant enough from SF to conduct the research at its own discretion.
As to specifically why the roles are reversed in this cooperation (a civilian vessel and SF base -vs- a SF vessel and a civilian base) is beyond me, perhaps each situation varys. Whichever the case, the case being the 3 NAR registries that come to mind, it would seem that they are SF vessels or perhaps formerly SF vessels run by Federation civilians independant of OR in the interest of Starfleet Command.
After all the math is done, the remainders seem to point at:
Raven = U.S.S. w/ NAR = SF vessel reassigned or on a temporary loan to Fed. civilians and re-registered.
In these two cases, it just so happened to be science vessels in queston, and since SF is scientific-exploration oriented and the Fed. Sci. Council is scientific-exploration oriented they coordinate there efforts on numerous levels while working toward the same goal. Compare this to the Prometheus working with Prof. Seyetik, it is understandable why this specific joint operation still remains primarily under SF control. I cannot see SF loaning out a Nebbie to Fed. Scientists, due to both is value and the maintainance and operation demands its requires. With civilian morons at the helm, an opposing force could easily bag themselves a nice prize without much effort. The Raven and Vico, in the same respect, are a lot less of a hot commodity and therefore SF is likely less hesitant to donate or loan out a few of these to is Fed. research counterparts.
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posted
...I agree with NAR being a cilvilian registry, but since they went to the bother of changing the model to reflect NAR, what explanation are we left with that Starfleet emblems still adorn the Vico?
posted
Possibly to show it was engaged on Federation buisiness rather than that a private individual or company or a member world. Or the captain might just like the paint scheme. Or it's used at displays in the same way ex-military aircraft owned by civilians take part in modern airshows?
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posted
Concerning the Navy's use of various classes of ships (especially those arguing for one class/one purpose), I'd suggest that you guys take a look at the USN's website lists for active and [http://www.nvr.navy.mil/oldclass.htm]inactive[/url] vessel classifications. They've got plenty of various uses -- and the US Navy specializes. Sure, most of the high-profile ships like the frigates, cruisers, and aircraft carriers today can handle a few different purposes... but not too many. A Galaxy-class starship, on the other hand, could probably handle most -- if not all -- of the various purposes in that list (adapted for interstellar equivalents, of course). That's what it's designed for.
But even if you've got a jack-of-all-trades starship, there's still the question of efficiency, optimized operation, and use of materials. Not to mention technological advancements!
If the USN wanted, they could still be running those old battleships around the world -- but the fact is that they're obsolete. To borrow a non-canon example, of what use would be one of Masao's old Farragut-class specialized orbital bombardment ships from the Romulan War be after the phasers were invented with their longer range and stronger power? The Constitution-class ships were considered incredibly lavish for their time, but they still packed in 430 people onto a ship that's got less internal volume than Voyager, which only had 150 or so. And of course, as time goes on, different missions develop, different ideas come into use, different needs arise.
I don't think there are really all that many different variations of starship out there -- it just seems that way because there are so many older ships that stay in use for a long time. I mean really... would anyone seriously consider a 1930's battleship to be a serious contender in combat today? Some of the starships we saw in TNG and DS9 could easily have been 60 or 70 years old! Which just goes to show that there's more opportunity for variation with the advanced technology and capabilities they've got.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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quote:Originally posted by Reverend: I stand by my assertion that NAR is simply a registry code for civilian ships from earth or just the Sol System in general. It's the only consistent explanation.
...except that the USS Vico was seen with both an NAR registry AND Starfleet emblems...
I don't see that as a problem. I freely accept that the Vico could well have been a former Starfleet vessel, but this fact would have little if any bearing on it's registry. It was simply recommissioned as a civilian science vessel and registered to an agency on Earth, which seams reasonable since earth seams to be the home to just about every Federation institution that we know of.
The theory that NAR is exclusive to former SF ships based on the presence of a Starfleet pennant on the Vico falls to pieces when you consider that the Raven did not have Starfleet markings and that it did appear to have what could well have been civilian markings. This is also the case with the "Executive Shuttle", clear Federation markings but nothing associated Starfleet. And then there's the Mariposa reg which is clearly described "NAR" as a UN registry. It's no huge leap of logic to assume that the old UN registry code would later become the new United Earth code.
Using the Vico as evidence is using the exception to prove a rule that otherwise makes little sense.
Um, Reverend, what are those markings on the nacelles and on the bow?
The Mariposa is a pre-Federation ship and therefore doesn't count.
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
Member # 343
posted
Those are more like the ENT-era Starfleet Command logo than anything. So unless you're attempting to suggest that Raven is actually from the 2150s (which could get you lynched), then there's no point to be made.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Those are NOT Starfleet markings. They are uhm.. bananas. Yes. And they do look a bit like the 2150s Earth Starfleet Command logo, which would actually support Reverend's theory.
quote: Excelsior could have been starfleet's completed ship for the Transwarp trials
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