posted
Trust me, I just got the TOS DVDs and rewatched "Space Seed" for myself. They specifically said that the last world war was the Eugenics Wars.
SPOCK: The mid-1990s was the era of your last so-called world war. MCCOY: The Eugenics Wars. SPOCK: Of course. Your attempt to improve the race through selective breeding...
People have come up with all sorts of rationalizations as to why this line doesn't mean that, but that was the original intent. It wasn't until TNG (and then, more specifically, FC) pegged WWIII as being in the 21st century that any distinction was made.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
I suppose my point, though, is that you made it sound like there was some sort of consistancy between episodes on the matter.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Well, "Space Seed" gave the war a name and "Bread and Circuses" gave a death toll for it. But actually, in my initial post I was just commenting on the similarity of the figures from "Borderland" and "Bread and Circuses."
Now that I'm thinking about the subject though, I'll speculate a bit. Spock says in "Space Seed" that in 1993 a group of supermen (Augments) seized control of over 40 nations simultaneously, and that of these tyrants Khan was the last to be overthrown in 1996. However, he does not say that the Eugenics Wars did not extend beyond this. The tyrants seizing control and their subsequent defeat might be only one event in the ongoing wars. Colonel Green's early 21st-century genocidal war mentioned in "The Savage Curtain" and other WWIII events described in TNG might be extensions of the same conflict. Perhaps the overthrowing of the tyrants, who "offered the world order" according to Khan, served only to destabilize Asia and the Middle East and escalate whatever tensions were already in place there. Factions form and conflict spreads---since the genetic supermen are no longer directly involved, people stop calling it the Eugenics Wars and begin referring to it as WWIII---and all this eventually culminates in a nuclear exchange between the East and the West, as per First Contact, and the Post-Atomic Horror follows. (Apparently more acute in Asia than elsewhere as per "Encounter At Farpoint.")
The United States was apparently not involved in the wars until later, explaining the lack of evidence of them in "Future's End" (VGR), but later it gets drawn into it them and Archer's great-grandfather ends up fighting in North Africa. (There, this could even explain away people's gripes about him being too young to have been a soldier in the 1990s! )
That's probably all jumbled and not very eloquent, but it's 4:30 in the morning so cut me some slack.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
posted
The connection between EW and WWIII (or "The last world war") was indeed made in "Space Seed", as stated. And it's quite plausible that these could all be part of one continuous conflict, even though there is no active fighting in North America in the 2020s of "Past Tense".
However, it's also possible that the connection that Spock makes is false. Or at least a Vulcan interpretation that neither Kirk nor McCoy agrees with. Note that when Spock makes the claim, we get a reaction shot from Kirk, showing the captain clearly beduffled, perhaps even slightly amused. McCoy then chimes in, smiling and saying (with the tender tone reserved for correcting children) that Spock must have meant the Eugenics Wars. With this, Kirk breaks into a smile as well.
Now, does Kirk have some fond memories of those good old days or what? The only good reason for him smiling is that Spock made an "oops".
Remember that the entire teaser of "Space Seed" is dedicated to our heroes making erroneous statements one after another, and being proven wrong two seconds after finishing their lines. Spock thinks this can't be an Earthship. Kirk gets schadenfreude points when it is. Kirk says it's like DY-500. Spock makes his schadenfreude assault by going to painful detail about DY-100. McCoy says the life aboard is not human. Etc. Etc.
So interpreting Spock's line as untrue would nicely fit the spirit of the episode, if nothing else...
posted
I would disagree as to the tone of the statement from McCoy. To me, it was clearly a confirmatory clarification, and I believe this was the intent of the writers.
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
Charles Capps
We appreciate your concern. It is noted and stupid.
Member # 9
posted
quote:How was Spock ever supposed to be the first Vulcan in Starfleet, given that the USS Intrepid was manned entirely by Vulcans?
Perhaps he was the first to graduate Starfleet Academy and move up the ranks from there?
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
I'm left wondering if J.G. Hertzler's character was, perhaps, Commander Martok, great-great-grandfather of General/Chancellor Martok.
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
The spellings are probably wrong, but here are some planets and other unmentioned terms:
Not sure if it was mentioned elsewhere, but the date was May 17, 2154
Cold Station 12 is where the embryos (as well as other diseases) are/were maintained.
Soong was arrested in 2144 - and obviously, 2134 was when he "gave birth" to his "children" - with some slight modifications to the Khan-type. The planet they were on was in the Trialis System.
The Klingon BofP has photon torpedos and wing mounted disruptors.
The Orion processing station was on Varix III.
-------------------- Hey, it only took 13 years for me to figure out my password...
Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged
posted
More than JUST wing-mounted disruptors.. Darn thing has turrets on either side of the nose, on the belly, and the usual wingtips! Visually, it's better armed numerically than its successors!
Anyone remember when the last timestamp was? Perhaps we can extrapolate how long they were in spacedock. It's been at least two weeks since T'Pol got married, since she stayed that much longer after Trip left. Trip COULD have stayed around a while to see more of Vulcan... Anyway, I'm sure it's been at least a month, probably two, since they got "Home". How much is a reasonable vacation time after saving the world, before you go back to work? Just long enough to fix the ship?
And I was HOPING for some promotions. I mean, you freaking SAVED THE WORLD. Should Mayweather and Sato still be ensigns for their contributions? I would hope to see those two plus Reed get a boost in rank - they could still maintain the chain of command this way.
And in yet another example of how Mayweather doesn't exist anymore, they gave this newbie lines and plot when they kidnapped him. He's a new ensign on board, and it's apparently his first deep-space assignment. He read every report on Enterprise, hoping it would prepare him - and of course it didn't. But you'd think reading all those reports of Archer getting captured or imprisoned or tortured would steel him a BIT, no?
posted
Hadn't we heard of the Trialis system before - in TNG I think. Maybe I'm thinking of Triolic waves... from "Time's Arrow" I think.
The T'Pol-doll scene was funny - where she was being put on display.
Other aliens in the market: I'm sure I saw a Nausicaan, and I DEFINATELY saw one of the blue, shrouded 'obscure' aliens from DS9's "Q-Less". (The one that bids on something in Quarks while the station is being pulled into the wormhole).
Also, Is Khan Noonien Singh and Noonien Soong being linked? Or is it a cooincidence? Is it the fact that Noonien Soong who built Data is so - clever - just like this geneticist? Maybe he (2154 Soong) swapped from Genetics to Robotics?
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
I thought it was NooniAn Soong, according to scripts. Mind you, the name could have easily been corrupted over two centuries. OTOH, why would Data's dad's dad (whoever that was - Noonian was about 90 when he died, says the script) name him after a nutjob from the 1990s?
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Spock says in "Space Seed" that in 1993 a group of supermen (Augments) seized control of over 40 nations simultaneously, and that of these tyrants Khan was the last to be overthrown in 1996. However, he does not say that the Eugenics Wars did not extend beyond this. The tyrants seizing control and their subsequent defeat might be only one event in the ongoing wars. Colonel Green's early 21st-century genocidal war mentioned in "The Savage Curtain" and other WWIII events described in TNG might be extensions of the same conflict. Perhaps the overthrowing of the tyrants, who "offered the world order" according to Khan, served only to destabilize Asia and the Middle East and escalate whatever tensions were already in place there. Factions form and conflict spreads---since the genetic supermen are no longer directly involved, people stop calling it the Eugenics Wars and begin referring to it as WWIII---and all this eventually culminates in a nuclear exchange between the East and the West, as per First Contact, and the Post-Atomic Horror follows. (Apparently more acute in Asia than elsewhere as per "Encounter At Farpoint.")![[Smile]](smile.gif)
)
Printer-friendly view of this topic
