posted
So, er, what does the Federation look like? No. Kidding. Again. Not funny. I realize.
No, but so I've been poking through the excerpt of the Geof Mandel Star Charts: A TOTALLY COMPLEAT AND TOTAL CANON ATLAS OF STAR TREK and while somethings are brilliant and rather clever, there are some things that don't make sense to me. Like the naming of the galactic coordinate systems with Sector Quads and Sector Grids and how exactly that all gets broken down. I don't recall anyone ever in Star Trek talking about Sector Quads or Sector Blocks.
My question is how accurate is this book regarding that? Well, I mean, how true to the shows and movies. I'm not saying it isn't a good system. Well..., actually, I am saying that, but mostly I'm wondering if this system is something a budding Trek cartographer should take into consideration.
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
I look at it every time I am in the store, but I am always intimidated by bookstore employees, and so I buy snobby rock magazines instead.
Towards the end of Voyager, weren't there vague rumblings from Sternbach and/or Okuda re a Grand Unified Sector Number Theory?
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Well, the term "grid" was frequently used in VOY for volumes of space larger than sector. At first, only Seven of Nine used it, so it sounded like a Borg thing; but it makes sense for Starfleet to also have a word for it, even if Alpha Quadrant ships seldom deal with such large volumes.
And the "quadrant" that is smaller than a sector is a common feature in TOS and the TOS movies (most prominently ST2:TWoK), plus some early TNG episodes. Mandel chose to make the difference between this quadrant and the galactic pie-wedge quadrant as explicit as possible, for the benefit of the readers.
Yeah, that part of the book was largely "co-researched" between Mandel, Okuda and Sternbach.
quote:Originally posted by Sol System: I look at it every time I am in the store, but I am always intimidated by bookstore employees, and so I buy snobby rock magazines instead.
Like Tiger Beat.
I've seen it in stores a few times, but I knowq that someone will just scan the whole damn thing and post it online (and probably with smart and needed corrections nad updates) as soon as I do.
Then the book with go into the box o' books I cant believe I actually own- fan designed uber-monstroity ship design books mostly but that "Voyager's scripts" is in there as well.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I bought it. I like looking at the book but there are some problems with the editing. It reminds me of those slick rock-star magazines that are put together more as fluff pieces.
Registered: Feb 2004
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LastGuardian
Ex-Member
posted
quote:Originally posted by Balaam Xumucane: So, er, what does the Federation look like?
FInd yourself a copy of the Star Trek Maps, published by Bantam in 1980.
posted
Er...not that those would reflect much of the canon worlds of the Federation. Might be a good starting point for an update though.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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But is that an update of the earlier version (as I've not seen the prior one, I cant say) or is it something he came up with from scratch?
I've got one (supposeldy) coming via post (for $5, I coud not resist the curiosity) and I'd like to see where it diverges from other charts.
Didnt FASA have some "maps of the federation" for their old RPG?
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote: But is that an update of the earlier version (as I've not seen the prior one, I cant say) or is it something he came up with from scratch?
The latter.
Or, the real stars and other highlights of our galaxy of course stay unchanged, but the original coordinate system error in the Maps is corrected for Charts. Just about anything and everything relating to Trek is changed, though.
Basis for this change is the load of new data on that universe, largely outdating everything in the Maps, from relative locations to relative distances to planet classification systems to sector hierarchies. Also, any onscreen graphics depicting the Trek galaxy are integrated to the Charts if at all possible. What remains of the Maps are the subtle references to the animated series and certain novels.
The look of the two works is different, too (the Charts being a book with some fold-out pages, rather than a collection of "loose-leaf" maps, for one). You'd be hard pressed to guess these come from the same author if it didn't say so on the cover.
posted
So, Charts is a vast improvment- Does Maps include anything omitted in Charts though (like a location for Starfleet HQ from TOS- stuff mentioned but never actually shown)?
Probably not.
I was thinking of scanning in Charts and adding in whatever I could from the novels: like the location of that purdy starbase you made or the former Thalloian Empire...just for fun really.
As an open source kinda thing, it would need periodic updating.
Mabye some of the stuff from Enterprise could be added in as well (Xindi space) and some notable encounters (like the systems destroyed by the TOS PLanetkiller or the location of the Dyson Sphere system.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
Harrr, it would be a really cool project, Jason. I for one would love to see an interactive map project with (perhaps) specialty maps for each scurvy series. You know just to limit the scope (& canon). Can any of ye landlubbers direct me to the UFP gold on this treasure map?
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Bottom center about a third f the way from the outer rim.
Of course, the Fed could stretch "downward" like a snake "under" the territories of other major powers.
'Course, thats just to be confusing, ya scurvy denebian plasma scrubber! ARRR!
I'm more intrested in photoshopping out the planet listings and making it a template to overlap variants of "envounters", "aincent artifacts", First Contacts" "Non-canon events".
Stuff like that.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
3-dimensional space is someting that the maps really don't depict. Of course, how can you accurately depict 3 dimensions in a 2 dimensional plane?
I like the idea of territories snaking "above" or below other national groups and star systems.
I thought this site was really cool and e-mailed the guy responsible. I did have a dispute with him over the location of Gamma Hydra. In TOS "The Deadly Years" Gamma Hydra is near the Romulan Neutral Zone and, in Star Trek II the star system is near the Klingon Neutral Zone (in the Kobyashi Maru simulation). I would have moved the star closer to both territories but the explaination I was given is that the star is in the location it really is.
Maybe Klingon territory snaked up and around the Romulans toward Gamma Hydra?
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Or then the supposed alliance between the empires involved a mutual protection pact?
Alternately, the alliance had crumbled by that time already, and Klingons were infamous for using Romulan space for their assorted acts of piracy and mayhem, both against Romulans and any other nearby prey.
Or then we could just say "It's a simulation!" and leave it at that. Hey, in ST6, the Romulans apparently are allies of the Feds. Perhaps the no-win scenario had to be hastily updated when this alliance was formed, with every reference to "those evil Romulans" replaced by one to "those evil Klingons".
In any case, making Gamma Hydra proximal to both empires would complicate things quite a bit, what with it being relatively distant and coreward from Earth. If the Klingon/Romulan border moves that far "northeast", then a map based on "Okudaic" distances will look odd indeed.
Of course, if one drops the assumption of Okudaic distances, which assume that 100 ly is a weeks-long trip, this matters little. TOS is replete with examples of 100 ly being a seconds-long trip! However, the Star Charts (and Christian's map referred above) assume Okudaic scaling because they rely partially on Okudaic onscreen maps...
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