posted
First of all thanks to everyone for your ideas about the Earth-Romulan war.
My next question regards the birth of the Terran warp drive with Cochrane's Phoenix.
Did this ship have a matter/antimatter (M/A) reactor? (I know that Riker says in "First Contact": "Bring the warp core on line." But this seems to me a rather modern expression, given that this is the first Earth ship with warp drive. I would think that "matter/antimatter reactor" would have been more appropriate. Or he just could have been using his modern term.) Several objections to Phoenix having a M/A reactor: 1. Dilithium is supposedly needed to control the M/A reaction. Is dilithium available on Earth? It's not found on all planets, and if it were naturally occurring here, we probably would've read about it in the papers. (By the way, why would the Klingons use prisoners to mine this extremely important strategic resource on Rura Penthe? Especially with an energy crisis.) 2. Even if M/A reactors had been developed, producing antimatter seems extremely difficult. Even in the 24th Century, it is only manufacturered in limited locations. In the 21st century, I think manufacturing antimatter would've taken enormous resources (both material and monetary), probably not available to an entire country after a nuclear war and certainly not available at the glorified hobo camp around the Phoenix launch site. (The facilities also seem too primitive for warp drive, but that's another question.) During WWII's Manhattan Project, making enough fissionable material was the main bottle neck to atomic bomb production. I can believe Cochrane made the breakthrough of warp drive, but to make the additional simultaneous breakthrough of the M/A reactor seems unlikely. 3. Even if they could produce antimatter, it is an extremely dangerous substance. You wouldn't want to have that stuff anywhere near large groups of people without extreme safeguards.
If the key to warp drive is not a specific type of energy but rather the amount of energy, fusion power might be sufficient. Even today, we are pretty close to producing fusion energy. It's probably available by 2063.
Although it's not strictly canon, a cutaway poster of Phoenix has been published by Scipubtech. Does anyone have it? Does it show a warp core?
------------------ When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum [http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/sfmuseum/]
posted
The Phoenix had a warp core in the sense that it had an engine dedicated to producing power for the warp drive. I think it is unlikely that the ship was powered by antimatter, considering the times. Post-apocalyptic America probably isn't a good place to find a particle accelerator.
As you say, fusion would probably provide an acceptable power source. The fuel for such an engine would be far more easier to come by and store.
------------------ "And I can't approach myself, skating over this perdition." -- Soul Coughing
posted
I'va always assumed that the Phoenix had a fusion reactor and that "warp core" was another of Riker's idiotic slips. I mean, the guy really had no room to talk when he complained about Geordi's telling Cochrane about the statue. I mean, look at the paradox he created w/ that "Don't try to be a great man..." line. And I think he did the same thing by using (and, in effect, creating) the term "warp core".
------------------ "I think you people have proven something to the world: that a half a million kids can get together and have three days of fun and music� and have nothing but fun and music." -Max Yasgur; Woodstock, NY; August, 1969
posted
I think that it would be natural for him to say "warp core" even if that wasn't necessarily the corect term. But the again the term warp core could predate M/ARA. Was the term used in TOS? I seem to remember "warp engines" or something to that effect. Thanks for posting this question Masao, I been kinda wonder about it myself. Personally I do not believe that dilithium is naturally occuring on Earth so even if they could produce antimatter, they could not control the reaction. Fusion seems a good bet- by 2061 even post apocalyptic refugees might own a MR. Fusion garbage disposal/warpcore.
------------------ "Stood in firelight, sweltering bloodstain on chest like map of violent new continent." -Rorschach
[This message has been edited by Obi Juan (edited October 26, 1999).]
posted
No, Riker is no idiot this time. "Warp core" is a generic and very unprecise term for the device that produces the energy for the warp drive. As such, it has not very much to do with the propulsion itself. The quantum singularity of the Warbird could be dubbed "warp core" as well.
posted
Hmm...Riker introducing the term "warp core" thereby causing the word to exists. And..uh, ah hell. Riker is the person that created the term warp core in the 2064 Webster Dictionary.
------------------ "This is where the adventure is. This is where heroes are made." - Dr. Bashir Federation Starship Datalink - Now with a pop-up on every page...damn you Tripod!
The First One
A lovely little thinker, but a bugger when he's pissed
Member # 35
posted
Here's something you've forgotten. How do we know what improvements Geordi's Engineering team might have made to the ship? They could easily have removed anything anachronistic later. . . after all, several components were damaged beyond easy repair, hence the jury-rigging. If someone at a leter date asked "but where's the flux capacitor?" (or whatever) he could have replied that he took it out to use in his Mark II Warp Drive, rather than revealing that he used a 24th century one!
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Could the events in FC be a predestination paradox or whatever it's called? Meaning that warp drive would never have been invented without the Enterprise crew assistance. Sort of like what happens in Terminator.
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
posted
I would rather say: If there is no paradox, then it would be predestination, but that's a matter of definition: http://www.uni-siegen.de/~ihe/bs/startrek/timetravel.htm (not that I expect anyone to read this)
Registered: Mar 1999
| IP: Logged
posted
Will Riker was meant to look stupid, you say, Bernd? That's the predestination in this case?
------------------ Elim Garak: "Oh, it's just Garak. Plain, simple Garak. Now, good day to you, Doctor. I'm so glad to have made such an... interesting new friend today." (DS9: "Past Prologue")
posted
Well there the Borg and Enterprise-E traveling back in time was mentioned in "Relavitity" remember.
------------------ "This is where the adventure is. This is where heroes are made." - Dr. Bashir Federation Starship Datalink - Now with a pop-up on every page...damn you Tripod!
posted
I don't think the Enterprise crew coming back in time created a paradox. The Borg came from the future and damaged the Phoenix. The Enterprise came from the future to repair whatever damage the Borg had done. It was just a matter of putting things right in the past, nothing changed too much.
------------------ All hands, abandon ship! All hand, abandon... BOOM!
Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
The third World War was referred to as a nuclear holocaust. Fission Warheads were probably still there after WWIII. I highly doubt that the Earth had developed fusion technology before, during, or after the war. Nuclear Fission devices were still being used in the Terran-Romulan War. Nuclear Fission (if harnessed right) can still yield lots of energy, though not as much as a fusion reaction.
------------------ I can resist anything....... Except Temptation
Printer-friendly view of this topic
