posted
I have a little nitpick about the term "kitbash" that I;d like to hash out guys. I realize that the DS9 tech manual refers to ships rushed into service and ships made of spare parts and what not. I've also seen the term kitbash used on the forums when refering to the Centaur type, the Shelley Class and the Yeager class.
Here's my problem. First of all the made up ships in the DS9 Tech Man are as impossible as they are stupid. I mean you've got parts that are way out of proportion to other parts. Also, I don't think you can just throw together a starship with two halves that were never made to fit together. Building a Fed Starship is a years long process.
Second of all, the only kitbashing actually done was by the modelmakers. For instance, the Centaur type uses an Excelsior saucer and a Miranda rollbar from the AMT kits. The kits may fit together, but the 'actual' scale doesn't. Therefore, that's not 'really' a Miranda rollbar. The Centaur and the Shelley are therefore ships that were designed the way they are, not thrown together. Discussion?
posted
Bernd's site has an excellent commentary on this topic.
Anyway, it's getting to the point where I don't believe anything the DS9TM says. The Kitbash pics and specs in the book are certainly absolute rubbish.
I like your idea that the ships are actually unique classes and not "kitbashes". It's fitting considering that the Centaur had visibly different nacelles than the Excelsior-class.
Are we to believe that when Starfleet built the Constellation it grabbed Miranda nacelles and saw their ends off? Of course not!
------------------ "Forgive me if I don't share your euphoria!" (Weyoun to Dukat, Tears of the Prophets) Dax's Ships of STAR TREK
posted
I don't know, sometimes nitpicking goes too far. I mean, common, these variants are only used in the far backrounds on Deep Space Nine, if the parts are out of scale, mabye they expanded the center areas with other spare parts, they only give you a side view anyway.... I really wish they would elaborate on those ships.
posted
Well, beside the fact that most of those DS9TM ships are dumb, many of them have NEVER been on DS9 even in the far far background. OK, the Yeager Class (or Intrepid Variant 1 or whatever) appears to be an Intrepid saucer and a Peregrine butt. I have no problem believeing they did other things with an Intrepid-like saucer, but the Peregrine is way too small to be connected to an Intrepid. The design may be similar but it would have to have been scaled up, therefore, it was designed that way, not thrown together.
posted
Most logical, Aban Rune, Dax, and Wes1701E. I doubt many of the forum regulars other than me will post here, as most of them hate 'kitbashes' with a passion. If you ask me, These are kitbashes, but these are plausible classes.
So I used my own designs as examples of plausible classes. A few people here will agree with me.
BTW - There are 26 galleries to that first URL. Just keep on typing 2-26 in the URL to see the rest of them.
posted
Uh..Fabrux, what exactly are those things in the first link you gave?
As far the DS9 kitbashes goes, I don't mind them. Though I tend to believe the Centaur type to be a class, Centaur-class for lack of a better name, rather than some Starfleet put together with spare parts.
------------------ "This is where the adventure is. This is where heroes are made." - Dr. Bashir Federation Starship Datalink - Now with a pop-up on every page...damn you Tripod!
posted
The Centaur is obviously a class since we have seen ships that look exactly like her in other episodes.
------------------ "Can you pull in the leviathan with a fishhook or tie down his tongue with a rope? Can you put a cord through his nose or pierce his jaw with a hook? Will he keep begging you for mercy? Will he speak to you with gentle words? Will he make an agreement with you for you to take him as your slave for life? Can you make a pet of him like a bird or put him on a leash for your girls? Will traders barter for him? Will they divide him up among the merchants? Can you fill his hide with harpoons or his head with fishing spears. If you lay a hand on him, you will remember the struggle and never do it again!" -Job 41:1 - Job 41:8
posted
They're Dr. Seuss's worst nightmares! I think they're supposed to be ships, but I'm not sure.... They scare me. Believe it or not, I used to look up to the people who designed those things. But then I started kitbashing, and after about a month or so I started laughing. And getting really scared...
Sorry for pluggin' my design. But I like it so much.
------------------ 7 of 9 alarm clock: "Wake up. Resistance is futile." Dilbert: "I wonder if I could ever date a woman like Jeri Ryan." 7 of 9 alarm clock: "That too is futile." Federation Starship Datalink - Now with a pop-up on every page...damn you Tripod!
posted
I completely agree with Aban Rune. I see my article as a first approach to the topic, maybe I will reconsider a few things. The suggestion that only the models are kitbashed while the real starships are not is one of the most important arguments.
Dax: You got the point. It is obvious that the design of the Constellation nacelles is based on the Miranda nacelles, but Starfleet definitely didn't take existing Miranda nacelles and chopped off the ends. They certainly built custom nacelles of a similar type for the new ship. So not the "real" Constellation but only the model is a kitbash.
Fabrux: I wonder if the designer's of the ships in Frankenstein's horror cabinet (aka Ptzue colony) are fond of their ships themselves...
I tend to believe the Centaur-like ship in "Behind the Lines" was the Centaur herself. Captain Reynolds made it back from his mission deep inside Dominion territory!
------------------ "When diplomacy fails, there's only one alternative - violence. Force must be applied without apology. It's the Starfleet way." A somewhat different Janeway in VOY: "Living Witness" Ex Astris Scientia
posted
Obviously the Centaur is the Centaur. They call it the U.S.S. Centaur in the ep. That doesn't mean it's Centaur Class, though. For now we can only call them Centaur Type ships. As for the Constellation relation to the Miranda. Those kind of nacelles were obviously in frequent use during that period. Constitution refit, Constellation, Sydney, Miranda, Shelley: they all use those style nacelles. But the ships themselves were designed as unique classes.
I loathe (mostly) people who just take canon parts, rearrange them, and call it a new class of ship. If however, they were to show up on one of the shows, we would have to accept them as unique classes. Starfleet doesn't kitbash, Star Trek does (sometimes).
posted
Aban Rune, are you referring the type of stuff Fabrux and I do? It's fun. Maybe Fabrux could explain it better than I.
Or are you referring to the kitbashes such as the Centaur or Shelley/Curry? I agree, you'd think that the artists for DS9 would come up with better designs for the show.
------------------ 7 of 9 alarm clock: "Wake up. Resistance is futile." Dilbert: "I wonder if I could ever date a woman like Jeri Ryan." 7 of 9 alarm clock: "That too is futile." Federation Starship Datalink - Now with a pop-up on every page...damn you Tripod!
[This message has been edited by Hobbes (edited November 02, 1999).]
posted
Aban: Not the Centaur when it attacked Sisko's bug. There was another one seen in a shot of Starbase... er... whichever-number-it-was... in a later ep. They never said that that one was the Centaur, though it could have been.
------------------ "Agh! Save me from the wee turtles!" -Groundskeeper Willy, The Simpsons
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