posted
If you are going to count ships appearing only as models, what about ships appearing only as schematics? During the Kobayashi Maru exercise in STII, schematics of several Constiution-class derivatives, including a one-nacelle scout or destroyer and a 2-nacelle tug, from the "Starfleet Technical Manual" were visible on bridge monitors. Are these also canon?
------------------ When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
posted
Well, to be perfectly strict, this statement is canon: At the time of ST2, there were diagrams of those ships in the computer of the KM simulator. Now, from this, it could certainly be inferred that these ships are SF ships. In fact, I'd be very interested to know which ones they are. However, there are also people who would say the ships aren't necessarily in SF service, and that would be perfectly valid, too.
------------------ Rimmer: "Holly, put a trace on Paranoia." Holly: "What's a trace?" Rimmer: "It's space jargon. It means 'find him'." Holly: "No it doesn't. You just made it up to sound cool." -Red Dwarf: "Confidence & Paranoia"
posted
In the episode "The Wounded", in Capt Maxwell's ready room, there is a model of a starship. This is not the Nebula Class model. Can someone get a picture of this ship?
If there schematics of the ships from the Star Fleet Technical Manuel,then this raises a question. Did the producers and directors of Star Trek 1 and 2 view the manuel as being "canonical"? And what about the USS Antares? Two items of notice-the USS Antares shares a registry with a ship of the Scout Class (Hermes) and is identified as SS Antares in the official synopsis to "Charlie X". This would change the status of the ship to a civilian ship and not the class ship of the Antares Class. In summation, this complicates the issue of the Star Fleet Technical Manuel and the USS Antares. According to Paramount, whatever is seen or heard on the episodes and films is canonical, so if the ships from the SFTM are in a film, this makes them canonical and this makes the SFTM canonical. What a fuckin mess. Jeez.
If the Designs from the Technical manual are in the Movies, then the designs themselves, and only the designs are canon. None of the names of whatnot.
I'm not really understanding your whole rant about the Antares. If you are comparing the name to any names in the Technical Manual, it is irrelevant. The names in those books are not canon, so you don't have to worry. And what synopsis are you talking about? One from startrek.com? Anything on that should be taken with a grain of salt. Or a whole silo. Remember the whole USS Antares NCC-47404?, Borg Killer at Wolf 424? Or the USS Trail?
------------------ "I've never seen anything this beautiful in the entire galaxy. Alright, give me the bomb" -Ultra Magnus, Fight or Flee
posted
Colin: I think it's just a model of the Phoenix:
------------------ Frank's Home Page "We've got some new songs here that are not even on the MP3 thing. They're not available in any format, except of course the bootlegs that seem to proliferate all through our audience, as we watch people lip-synch along to songs that HAVEN'T BEEN RELEASED! DAMN YOU!" - John Linnell
[This message has been edited by The Shadow (edited November 08, 1999).]
posted
The way I see it, only the ship designs are canon. We can assume that they represent ships in Starfleet service, but their actual names, numbers, duration of service, etc, can only be conjecture. The rest of the SFTM cannot be considered canon. We cannot even assume that the two ships mentioned in radio chatter at the start of ST:TMP are actually the same ships shown in the SFTM. However, they might be.
A week or two ago, someone posted information about the technical manual (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/9081/rememberfj.html). This site tells all about the manual and its use in the movies. Highly recommended.
------------------ When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
------------------ Rimmer: "Holly, put a trace on Paranoia." Holly: "What's a trace?" Rimmer: "It's space jargon. It means 'find him'." Holly: "No it doesn't. You just made it up to sound cool." -Red Dwarf: "Confidence & Paranoia"
posted
I don't have the technical manual with me here at work so I can't give you the class names (which are not visible on screen anyway), but cropped but otherwise unaltered pages of the technical manual were used which show a 1-nacelle scout or destroyer and a 2-nacelle tug, both based on the Constitution. I believe the tug is the Ptolomey class and the scout or destroyer classes were Hermes or Cygnus. At the beginning of ST:TMP, you can hear the following names and registries on voice over: Revere NCC-595 and USS Columbia NCC-621. Both names and registries can be found in the technical manual.
------------------ When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
I think the model on Maxwell's desk is the original study model for USS Melbourne, as seen in "Future Imperfect". In that episode, this model (which has an elongated secondary hull compared to the real Nebula class) had two miniature warp nacelles in place of the dorsal module. These nacelles had red ramscoops and blue field windows, as all proper nacelles ought to have.
In "The Wounded", the real Nebula debuted for the first time, as a full-scale photographic model that was way bigger than the desktop study model. Obviously, this big model could not be used as desktop decoration, so the prop people chose the next best alternative: they slightly modified the old Melbourne model by painting the miniature nacelles white and connecting them with a piece of plastic so that the model *superficially* looks like the Phoenix.
If one looks closely, one can see the painted-over and connected nacelles of the desktop model do not quite match the wider and more graceful arch used as the module of the Phoenix. The too long secondary hull isn't evident from these photos, though.
The desktop model received a second "refit" when it was added to the desktop collection of Capt. Sisko. The ersatz module was replaced by a proper Nebula triangular model, but the secondary hull still sticks out.
So if we argue that models are canon, then we have proof for at least seven Nebula variants!
-Melbourne as seen in "Future Imperfect" -Phoenix as filmed -Phoenix as desktop model -modern Nebula as filmed before Generations -modern Nebula as filmed in Generations -modern Nebula as seen in CGI in DS9 -modern Nebula as seen on Sisko's desktop
Three of these share the elongated secondary hull, so perhaps that config ought to become canon?
posted
Oh, and BTW, Frank... Any more of those screencaps of obscure models and ships? My heart always misses two-three beats when something like the above picture appears out of nowhere. Would you happen to have other pics archived somewhere deep in the bowels of your netsite, or something...?
posted
Most images I have are on either my SFSD site or SWDAO. Here's the Nebula model from "Future Imperfect," though:
------------------ Frank's Home Page "We've got some new songs here that are not even on the MP3 thing. They're not available in any format, except of course the bootlegs that seem to proliferate all through our audience, as we watch people lip-synch along to songs that HAVEN'T BEEN RELEASED! DAMN YOU!" - John Linnell
posted
As long as we're talking about obscure models, does anyone have any information on the Enterprise refit variant in that episode with the holodeck simulation of Leah Brahms? I seem to remember that in the drafing room at Utopia Planitia you can see an AMT/Ertl model of the refit Enterprise (missing the primary hull rim window pieces) with Constellation-style warp nacelles. Did I really see this or is was it a side effect of my youthful experimentation with mind-altering substances?
By the way, the 1-nacelle Constitution variants in the SFTM are called Saladin (not Cyngus) and Hermes.
------------------ When you're in the Sol system, come visit the Starfleet Museum
posted
Masao! You took the words err type out from under my fingers
No, your not delusional, I mentioned it here a LONG time ago - its probably been forgotten... maybe if we ask Mr G. nicely he'd do a nice big screen capture of it.
The nacelles were also attaced differently - on the side like a Constellation class.
According to Mike Okuda - they dropped the E refit model and stuck it back together wrong... but how could they do that!?!
The saucer also had a thick ring around it - like an enlarged sensor rim - like on the ED... (from where they glued it back together I guess)
I wondered what it was doing in the drafting room... I suggested it might have been a ship that had a lot of subsystems of the ED - i.e. a testbed ship - like the Pegasus.
------------------ "Remove your hand or I will remove your arm!" - 7 of 9
posted
Wait, wasn't the Pegasus originally a 4 nacelled ship as well?
hmm...
------------------ "The things hollow--it goes on forever--and--oh my God!--it's full of stars!" -David Bowman's last transmission back to Earth, 2001: A Space Odyssey
[This message has been edited by The359 (edited November 09, 1999).]
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