posted
I just heard of this book. Any new starships pic in it?
------------------ "The Starships of the Federation are the physical, tangible manifestations of Humanity�s stubborn insistence that life does indeed mean something." Spock to Leonard McCoy in "Final Frontier"
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The roster lists the ships and facilities (starbases and such) with KIA and MIA (and, I think, wounded) at each. I think most of the vessels are already known ones.
Unfortunately, they re-used names for the tiny print, (editor Margaret Clark is captain of five vessels and a starbase!) so you don't have a list of officers. Oh, well.
------------------ "Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ty Kwan Leap. Approach me, that you might see." -- The Master
posted
Okay, here are the ships or bases from the chart: Akagi NCC 62158 Clement NCC 12537 Cochrane NCC 59318 Exeter NCC 26531 Repulse NCC 2544 Tripoli NCC 19386 (wasn't this ship decommissioned & stolen in "Unification"??!!) Wyoming NCC 43730 Zapata NCC 33184 Starbase 129 Tecumseh NCC 14934 Sarajevo NCC 38529 (I thought this ship was lost years ago also) Victory NCC 9754 Starbase 153 Nobel NCC 55012
Note that the chart doesn't explicitly state that these ships or bases were destroyed; it only lists personnel either MIA, KIA, or WIA.
------------------ Bart: "Hey, Dad, I'll trade you this delicious doorstop for that crummy old danish." Homer: "Done and done...D'oh!"
posted
A WARNING: Within this very long thread, I have included a brief editorial on the Star Trek franchise. If you-the reader-are not inclined to read any more negative opinions on the franchise, please skip my thread. Several interpretations of facts here a. There are two USS Cochranes. The first is the USS Cochrane NCC-8000 from "The Drumhead" and the second is the USS Cochrane NCC-59318 from the list of ships from DS9. I have some questions here- 1.) Why would Starfleet use Oberth Class starships in battle? I have seen the model of these ships. There are no weapon turrets, like on the other classes of the era-the Constellation, Constitution, Excelsior, Miranda Classes, and Soyuz Classes. Additionaly, the ships have extremely weak shields. In the two recorded instances of Oberth Class starships in battle, these ships have a worser moratility rate than the Steamrunner Class. The feature film Star Trek III: The Search for Spock showed the USS Grissom NCC-638 being destroyed by a single Klingon torpodoe to the engineering section as shields were being raised. Later, in the "Emissary", the USS Bonestell NCC-31600 is shown retreating from the battle. This ship is seen from the port side of the USS Saratoga NCC-31911, as deduced by the single strike fired by the Borg ship against the Oberth Class starship. The strike hit the broadside of the USS Bonestell's port primary hull, severing the ship into two fragments. During the short interval in which the starship is seen, there were no shots fired from the USS Bonestell. And, there is a probability that the ship had shields raised. For starships designed for combat, i.e. the Miranda, many shots are required by the enemy starships to maim or destroy the Federation starship. (I think personnally from having seen the battles in Star Trek that Oberth Class starships were never designed for combat and were utilized in Federation sectors. As for the Steamrunner Class, these ships are not much better in combat than the Oberth Class ships. In the battle in 2374 against the Borg ship, I witnessed Steamrunners being blasted apart by one or two blasts and one ship received shrapnel damage from the exploding Borg cube and exploded apart.) I don't account for the reputed sighting of Oberth Class starships in the movie First Contact. The configuration of these ships is not readily visible. 2.) Could this second USS Cochrane be of another class? This would appear to be logical if the starship is required to be in battle against ships of the Dominion alliance. Adding to this novel intrepretation, the class of this second USS Cochrane is not listed. 3.) If the USS Cochrane NCC-59318 is of another class than the first USS Cochrane NCC-8000, could this be used as evidence that registries are not chronological and based on a system for which there is no canonical evidence and much speculation? The first USS Cochrane NCC-8000 is seen in 2367. The evidence for this second ship is seen in 2374 or 2375. Within seven years, the first ship is either decommissioned, destroyed, or sold to a private interest for scientific research and the second ship is commissioned.
As for the other ships, a. USS Tripoli NCC-19386 This heavy cruiser whose class is not canonically known is used in 2368 to ferry salvaged components to a holding facility. She loads the components once a week, IIRC. The ship is not decommissioned; she is still in active duty, though in a very limited capacity. (An editorial: I know her class is listed as Hokule'a; however, I take the encyclopedia with a grain of salt. If I don't know that the information comes directly from the episode or film, I regard the information as being arbitrary, misleading, and prone to errors. In the need to profit from the franchise, the TPTB have not instituted a stringent standard of consistency in product. This has resulted in products that as a fan of the Star Trek series I am ashamed to known of and I feel degraded by the producers that I am viewed as a purveyor of cash. For this reason, I will no longer purchase their magazines, novels, reference guides, and calenders. I do apologize for this editorial; however, I feel that at times I am the only fan or anything else for that matter that cares about the quality of the merchandaise being offered. From my perspective, I feel that other fans will accept the merchandise they are handed without serious questioning. This is very disappointing and helps to explain why the TPTB believe they can continue to offer such "garbage". If you, as an executive producer of Star Trek or Paramount executive, know that the fans will accept just about anything handed out at exorbitant prices, do you-the fan-think that the quality of the franchise and associated merchandise of that entity will improve in the near future? The end. I personnally like to think that the USS Tripoli could be an Ambassador Class starship.)
b. USS Sarajevo NCC-38529 This ship is said to be reported missing in 2372. She, like the USS Tian Nan Men NCC-21382, evaded the Dominion patrols and managed to return to Federation space. The USS Sarajevo entered the Alpha Quadrant before the Dominion War.
c. USS Victory NCC-9754 This confirms that ships of the Constellation Class are in operation during the Dominion War.
If there are thousands of starships in operation, why is the Okudagram only listing known ships? Couldn't he have been inventive in the names of ships or use Dominion War era ships named in episodes?
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takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory
[This message has been edited by targetemployee (edited September 07, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by targetemployee (edited September 07, 2000).]
posted
I must say the list of ships makes for very interesting "semi-canon" material, but it does require a lot of explaining in some respects.
Some answers to Targetemployee's good questions:
1) Oberth class may not be a very capable warship, but that certainly doesn't mean the Dominion cannot destroy an Oberth during the war. One of these essentially unarmed ships could have been making a supply run while escorted by a warship, or then traveling through space presumed safe. Dominion forces would then have made a surprise attack on the convoy or the lone ship, resulting in her loss.
Just in comparison, more than half the vessels employed by the USN are defenceless against *any* threat, down to and including an attack by a dozen Kalashnikov-wielding pirates in a Zodiac. Yet most of these "noncombatants" are still expected to operate in their designated support task in wartime. They just count on protection from other vessels, or then on good luck.
2) I trust the second Cochrane IS of a different class. So far, ship names have not been reused for identical vessels - although "Saratoga" was reused on a near-identical vessel. In any case, this venerable name is probably never left idle when an existing Cochrane gets stricken.
3) Another possibility is that an older warship with the 59000 rego and a launch date in the 2340s-50s got renamed when the glorious, historic and attractive name "Cochrane" became free through the destruction or retiring of the Oberth class supply ship.
a) As we know, the Tripoli was the ship that found Data. While she was specified as a cruiser in the episode, she was NOT specified as a HEAVY cruiser. I like to think of her as a light cruiser, a ship of lesser value, justifying why we hear little of the class elsewhere.
And we did see externally intact warships at Qualor, including two roll-bar'ed Mirandas. Reactivating these may not have been all that difficult. The Tripoli may have been just as intact, despite her temporary scrap barge role, and reactivation could have been within the limits of practicability.
b) I do like the idea that the Sarajevo (and the Proxima and the Maryland), listed as missing in Gamma, actually had more adventures than simply a Dominion encounter on the lines of "Wham, bang, good bye ma'am". A daring escape and return to Alpha is what I've come to expect of Starfleet's heroic starship crews...
c) I'll accept active-service Constellations without hesitation, since this is attrition war. The Victory might have been retired before the war, along with all the other Constellations, only to be reactivated to fill in for fallen comrades. I'm still of the opinion that the Constellation in "The Abandoned" was of some other class, though. During that episode, matters were not very desperate yet, and I trust Starfleet would have assigned a modern and fast starship to move the priority cargo of a live Jem'Hadar specimen.
The reappearance of known starship names may indicate that these were part of a pre-existing organization assigned to the area we used to observe in TNG and early DS9. Perhaps the vessels of, say, the 9th Fleet were permanently assigned exploration and other peacetime operations in the same area where they would see combat service in case a war broke out? Perhaps the E-D was part of this same organization?
quote:I don't account for the reputed sighting of Oberth Class starships in the movie First Contact. The configuration of these ships is not readily visible.
posted
Umm, and which of these ships are the Oberths?
I must admit that the ship in the lower two rows of pictures looks very interesting. Not Oberthy, necessarily, but peculiar nevertheless. There's that dark, round thing below the main hull and the nacelles, with a light center - a nav deflector? Are we just seeing a Steamrunner nearly head on?
posted
It *might* be an Oberth, or a whole new ship design. If it's an Oberth, then the coloration/shadowing of the CGI is really extreme. A physical model wouldn't look quite like that from any angle; I've been trying to twist and turn my Micromachines model left and right, up and down, 256 mark 75, attack pattern delta, and it just won't fit...
Incidentally, when speaking of ship lists... Your site, Fitz, has this Okudagram from Captain's Chair which lists various TNG vessels and their assignments. Would you happen to know if it comes from an episode? It would be a very nice addition to canon if it did.
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