posted
Augh, this is awesome and one of my favorite topics! Curse you, corporate conference!!
I'll add lots more shortly, but in a nutshell:
-Zippy was subservient to Apophis (one of many minor Goa'uld that were doing so).
-Even so, some minor Goa'uld have Jaffa forces of their own (Imhotep) while some apparently don't. Only the major families of the system lords seem to keep with the big helmet thing.
-Note that there IS some distinction between "regular" Jaffa and the helmeted version, which seem to be a sort of elite. In the episode with Klorel's trial, Teal'c notes that Zipacna's guard consists of "a Serpent Guard and two Jaffa", indicating that there is a rank structure in place besides "first prime and everyone else".
-Jaffa armor never came in too many flavors. The standard grey suits used to be the norm, which were then differentiated between Jaffa and full-blown something guard. When Sokar came along, we saw that at least his elite Jaffa guards had cool red organic-looking armor. When Apophis absorbed his forces, his Jaffa were still wearing the usual armor, but stained red. Later iterations had most Goa'uld-allied Jaffa wearing the full suit, and the rebels wearing only pieces thereof.
-In the movie verse, RA WAS THE LAST ONE. The novels state explicitly that Horus, Anubis et. al. were humans who had assumed the roles of the respective gods, which were TITLES that were passed on from one generation to the next. The first couple novels actually depict the power struggle between these leftover humans (including a human Hathor), fighting over Ra's remaining weapons and power base.
-It's my belief that in the SG-1 verse, Ra *was* on vacation, and in his pleaure yacht no less. He wasn't expecting an uprising from a bunch of people on a remote planet, so he brought only his core first prime(s) and a relatively unarmed Ha'tac (which we only see him and Heru'ur ever use, I might add) for a weekend worship cruise.
-No problems with the Anubis guard being Noobie's former first prime, or someone symbolically portraying the role as a testament to Ra's power (Anubis had been banished centuries previous, after all). The guy may not even have been Jaffa! Jack states in COTG that the guys he faced were human. However, he does tend not to notice things unless they're directly related to someone trying to kill him, so...
Remember, We only get hints on the show as to Ra's ACTUAL power, mostly as references here and there to the centuries when the Goa'uld were perpetuating a stagnant harmony in the Galaxy. IMO, it was a fluke more than anything else that he happened accross some relatively primitive, but really determined Tau'ri with a nuke in their back pocket. It was crushing the head of the figurative snake that set everything in motion, after all. Sorta like some explorer from Europe traipsing off to Asia and killing Genghis Khan without knowing about the society he led. The rest sorta plays out.
posted
I always assumed that the Goa'uld were being all "I AM YOUR GOD!" and what not and had the names we know them by. Human mythology just incorporated these names later on.
-------------------- I haul cardboard and cardboard accessories
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
That would make the most sense, but I'm pretty sure that it's stated in the series that the Goa'uld co-opted the religious beliefs of the locals. Of course, SG-1 might not have all the answers, either.
posted
I figured Earth was the first place they really dominated. In their days on Earth, they weren't so much System Lords as Nation-State (or less) Lords. That's when they adopted the names of human gods. Later on, when they transported humans to other planets and started being System Lords, they had no reason to start changing the names they'd been using for centuries.
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posted
I always figured the other way around - as Unas, they conquered Earth and then ruled it once Ra figured out that humans were much better hosts. They didn't assume the roles of gods as much as create them as they saw fit - after they left in the first wave, their legacies evolved into the mythologies we know today.
Not every Goa'uld was remembered god, including Yu and Pelops; however, some of them thought of themselves as such afterwards (like Yu). When the original Egyptians defeated Ra, it wasn't too much of a loss since by that point most of the System Lords had abandonned Earth as a source of slaves and hosts, having seeded plenty of worlds by that point to use themselves.
Then there are the Asgard and their own seeding efforts, to say nothing of the Ancients, blah blah blah...
WizArtist II
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Aban Rune: Of course, SG-1 might not have all the answers, either.
SACRILEGE! You need to Ascend.
The only problem I see with the "Pleasure/Worship Cruise" theory is that with all the intrigue and crap that goes on, I can't see Ra getting so careless that he let's his guard down that much. I also can't believe he didn't just launch a bunch of gliders to deal with the problem instead of just two.
Granted, I think the series makes the point that the absence of Ra led to the system lords having their little pillow fights, but what did that really mean? If the U.S., Britain, or Russia was wiped off the face of the map would it really cause any more upheavel among the already warring nations? Certainly the superpower nations mere presence has done little to quell war between other lesser nations. And we've seen both in Iraq, the Falklands, and Afganistan that just because you are far more powerful that doesn't make you invulnerable to getting tagged by a lesser force. All the more reason to keep your guard up.
-------------------- There are 10 types of people in the world...those that understand Binary and those that don't.
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posted
I'd say that they showed up infrequently to most of the planets under their rule and various oral re-tellings of their origins padded the mythos to the point of diefication.
Consider- super-aliens show up, kick everyone's ass, enslave the population, teach them how to build great monuments, plant crops etc, -then split.
A few dozen generation later, they come back to find the locals have built a whole mythology around them, and willingly do whatever is ordered without that whole ass-kicking part.
What does not fit is that there are Guauld for all the major egyptian gods. That would seem to indicate that Earth was a major seat of power for many of the system lords at the same point in time.
Mabye Ra used Earth as a meeting place to forge alliances or as a place of banishment for fallen enemies?
Really great illustrations, Aban.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
There could be a distinction there in that the Goa'uld power base is feodal rather than national-patriotic. If you slip down the prestige pole, you stand to lose all your military and industrial might, as your forces may see fit to defect to a more prestigious leader. Such an arrangement would be more unstable than one where the power is tied down to a specific ideology or society.
When a top Lord goes down, it's not just a question of getting a new Lord. The replacement would have the power bases of both the old top Lord AND his preexisting own, resulting in a different power structure overall (Apophis assimilating Solkar). Or then the power behind the late top Lord would disperse among the lower-downs (Ra's heritage being plundered by others).
It may be that vigilance is not the way to stay in power in the Goa'uld society. A feodal standing army may not be possible; rather, you survive by forging alliances that will react to attacks. The reaction time will be long, as we saw with Apophis and Earth, so the alliances work through deterrence rather than through practical and immediate force. Ra could very well bet his fortunes on extreme deterrence rather than petty direct force, much like many Goa'uld put their host bodies in line of fire with regal indifference.
(Granted, they have their forcefield protection, and are unused to the sort of opposition that could penetrate these fields, but still... Apophis frequently went to places with very light bodyguard only, and the Yu- or Chronos- level Goa'uld often eschewed with direct protection altogether.)
posted
The Skeleton Guard, in service to Sokar (or is it Solkar?)
The skull would constantly emit flames . When the helmet folded up, the flames would go out right before hand. Now... think how cool it would be to see a Jaffa spin around and have that tail of flame follow his head.
posted
While I like these, I think you're limiting yourself creatively by maintaining the same base helmet. The original Horus and Anubis helmets mimicked the Egyptian depiction of those gods with their long necks and (relatively) small heads. While that may work with some (like, say, a crocodile head), that doesn't necessarily work for all. I think you ought to try experimenting outside the box some.
posted
Yah, I should. I realize that the reason the helmets on the movie are the way they are is because they mimic the hieroglyphic representations of the Egyptian gods. 2 considerations, though: 1) The show pretty much uses the same base. 2) I didn't really want to spend crap loads of time on this. It was just a cool little idea. The reality is, each Goa'uld, especially those not linked to an Egyptian diety, would likely have a fairly different helmet system.
posted
For some reason, that skull looks disproportionately tiny, compared to the rest of the helmet. Also, it looks really silly with that exclamation point on it.
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