posted
Sure, much later. It could also be retrofitted to travel through time, fire quantum torpedoes and use Janeway's batmobile hull armour, but it's hardly relevant to the original intent of the design so I don't take it into consideration.
posted
Have fun and set railgun-like launchers into the Steamrunner's ventral saucer- inertial dampeners would protect the crew and the hopper would shoot out like a big torpedo. A tad TOS-BSG though.
It'd be neat of the hopper's could join up like the lifeboats (though planetside, obviously) to make a mobile command post- sorta like circling their wagons, TNG style.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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posted
Photon torpedo launchers are already railguns of a sort, no?
As for the other thing, the larger model hopper would be a more logical choice for a mobile command base, though to be honest, that sort of thing would be done from the CinC room on the mothership, or possibly the task force flagship. Failing that there's ample facilities on a normal hopper for an abbreviated command centre. Besides, physically connecting them in a "gaggle mode" would leave the hoppers vulnerable and unable to "hop" in any kind of hurry and in the age of wireless communication, it'd be little more than a gimmick. Later models might have a holo-comm system so unit commanders can meet in the ops room without transfering over from their own hoppers, but again, little more than a gimmick as a video or audio link on a short range, or orbitally relayed narrow beam transmission would work just as well.
What they might do however it fly in a close formations of three to five hoppers so they can overlap shields to give them a better chance to withstand any AA fire from the surface. Any more in formation and they'd present too big a target and would become too difficult to mask from enemy sensors and would make it impossible for them to take evasive manoeuvres without crashing in to each other, any less and the shields might not be strong enough to warrant the risk of giving the enemy a one hit, two kills opportunity.
posted
I wonder what sort of AA would be in use during that time. Would there be some way to turn a disrupter bolt into a proximity "shell" to create flak? If they were just to use phasers, it would be a waste as the beams could be avoided, although maybe a micro photon torpedo could be configured to explode within a certain rang of a target.
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posted
When something is travelling towards you at or near the speed of light it's very difficult to consciously avoid it, more so when you're in the middle of atmospheric re-entry. All you can do is swerve and change course and hope they don't manage to get too many hits in. You increase your odds by overlapping shields, but as I said above not too many too close together so you can still take evasive action, I imagine the mother ship would be dropping swarms of probes that send out false sensor readings to act as decoys. Chaff and general sensor jamming jiggery pokery to create ghosts, shadows, reflections and echoes to make it as difficult as possible to get a lock should also give you a better chance, but there's always the chance of a lucky shot.
As for what weapons they have on the ground, I think it was said in that DS9 ep where Dukat nicks the Bird of Prey that the outpost that was attacked had a heavy duty phaser array, specifically designed to operate within an atmosphere. Torpedos would also be a possibility. It all depends really who you're facing. The Tholians for example might have and orbital web system that traps and destroys anyone attempting a drop while the Breen may used cloaked, self guided mines in the upper atmosphere. It all depends.
posted
Not at all. Tactics are tactics, no matter the doctrine. If I ever bother to write an essay about the Hopper/Steamrunner development I would include a bit where allot of old lessons had to be re-learned as up until that point, Starfleet had never been involved in large scale ground warfare in it's 200 year history. Until then it had all been space based engagements, boardings and the odd small scale skirmish. With the Cardassians they were taking colonies and digging in, so Starfleet was forced to dig them out again when the usual methods proved ineffectual. This is essentially why I don't believe in a Federation standing army, or for that matter fandom's favourite "Starfleet Marines". They're required so infrequently (only twice in 200 years as far as we know) that it's more likely a case of reservists and local planet based security/police being called up only as needed. The Federation is so big and has so many people that allot of resources can be diverted in wartime without detrimentally weakening the whole.
posted
My thoughts exactly. What is a standing army going to do for the federation? Better to have local defense forces. They don't even need to be all that compatible in terms of gear and doctrine. If they know how (at least in theory) to interface with the fleet to get moved as needed then all the "system X" forces can, mostly, only interact with their planet-mates while off system.
What I mean is, if there is a Vulcan defense force then they can have Vulcan weapons and Vulcan doctrine. If they are "assigned" duty occupying Cardassia then they can interact only with themselves and SF for the most part. They don't need full interoperability with the Bolian troops on the other land mass.
A standing "federal" army would be a huge liability for the, allegedly, peaceful UFP. Something their neighbors could hold up as proof of their duplicity. However "local defense forces" with "defensive" posture and training would have the same effect of increasing the difficulty of invading Federation worlds. These "local" forces could then voluntarily allow units to serve in a "federal" role as needed.
Somewhere between the UN peacekeepers and the National Guard. This has the added benefit of keeping the cost of maintaining these forces local. Though perhaps the UFP would pay the members back for resources used during federal deployments.
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posted
Your opinion on whether the Fed would have an army seems to be based on how it would look.
That's an incredible weak reason for such a decision to ever be made. The reasons why standing armies exist are the same now as they've always been.
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Shik
Starship database: completed; History of Starfleet: done; website: probably never
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posted
There is the possibility of how the US Army was until the late 1800s: state militia & guards-based. That allows for some interesting ideas in terms of units: the Blue Line (all Andorians) Surak's Shield (Vulcan-based unit specializing primarily in defense), as well as resurrecting the old Earth units--101st Spaceborne, the Taman Guards, the Queen's Own Highlanders.
-------------------- "The French have a saying: 'mise en place'—keep everything in its fucking place!"
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quote:Originally posted by Ahkileez: Your opinion on whether the Fed would have an army seems to be based on how it would look.
That's an incredible weak reason for such a decision to ever be made. The reasons why standing armies exist are the same now as they've always been.
I agree, it shouldn't be about how it appears to non-aligned powers, more about what the Federation stands for. The way I see it, the Federation is a political and economic alliance unified by a common government. It's not held together through the military power nor from fear of constant exterior threats. As such Starfleet is a tough organisation to understand from our (according to Gene) un-evolved point of view. While I don't for one second we'll have solved poverty, war and prejudice by the 24th century, Gene at least hoped we would and shows what that might be like and that is the world of Star Trek, for better or worse, credible or fatally naive, it's not up to us to say "Star Trek isn't like that" because it quite clearly is....and now I've started a rant. This is why I tend to stay out of Ahkileez's threads as we so totally disagree on this point, it's not worth arguing as neither will ever convince the other. Respectfully, of course.
Ok, getting back to the "Federation According to Reverend". As far as how the local security forces are organised and to what extent they are integrated into Starfleet, the canon point I draw from is a line from DS9 where some Admiral is talking to Sisko about Bajor's eventual introduction into the Federation. At one point he mentions that after they're officially in, begins the process of ABSORBING the Bajoran militia into Starfleet. Though of course, I'm sure some of you can think of equally valid interpretation; to me this implies that all Federation worlds have an indoctrinated Starfleet security force that (mostly) stays in the home system (though, I'm sure transfers and sponserships to the Academy are available.) In the case of the "older" worlds this is a no-brainer, most of the founding members had a significant role in developing Starfleet's ethos and doctrine from a purely human exploration organisation into the quasi-defence/security/exploration/R&D/engineering/diplomatic super organism it has become by the 24th century. With the newer members like Bajor, it seams as if the existing military (or inequivalent) institution is made a part of Starfleet. That includes uniform, equipment, rank structure and most essentially, doctine. Now that wouldn't mean the entire Bajoran militia (generals and all) gets shipped off to San Francisco to march in lines and learn the Federation anthem. More like it'd be a process taking years and mostly involving Starfleet instructors coming and training the Militia in the basic Starfleet protocols and equipment. Over time Militia personnel would also train the Starfleet instructor in their ways and hopefully both parties will learn something useful, maybe affecting what gets taught at the Academy later on down the line. In my mind, I like to think that the rank pins used on Voyager for the Maquis is the actual pins used by Starfleet personnel that are still in the midst of integration before they're certified and sworn in as "officially" Starfleet. So it's a gradual process where the ranks are sorted out over time, with certain individuals picked out to go to SFA for full officer training and the "culture shock" is cushioned as much as possible.
This approach may explain where the rank of SF Colonel fits into things, that being the equivalent of what we'd call an army General, but on a planetary scale. Though in my mind Colonel is more of a title than an actual rank in it's own right. In terms of hierarchy it's probably on par with a RADM or VADM. I would suppose it was chosen over other old ranks like Brigadier, Major or General as it at once is both senior, but not so high up as to be above the troops. Also since there isn't a standing army, most of the other ranks become redundant and so the structure would be more streamlines. It may also be a reasonable explanation why the officers in Starfleet seam to outnumber the enlisted, that being the majority the enlisted ranks serving mostly in their home systems, on surface facilities and space stations. Starships by necessity have to have a large number of Academy graduates to fulfil the science/exploration and diplomacy mission requirements. Serving as an enlisted person on board a starship is probably seen more as a path to getting a commission rather than because Ensigns need someone to order around. I'm sure the likes of O'Brian get offered commissions (like Riker gets offered Commands) but for their own reasons, choose to decline.
Ok, enough rambling, I've forgotten what I was getting at now...oh yeah. Starfleet isn't the military!...not the kind we're familiar with anyway.
quote:Originally posted by shikaru808: Motherfuck. I lost cool points... I submit.
They're still badass though. Been reading about the British Army, and I always thought the Gurkhas were pretty cool.
Gurkhas are an oddity and a bit of a relic from the old days of Empire and thieving of countries. The closest Star Trek equivalent I can think of would be the KDF exchange program. I imagine after the Dominion War, many blood oaths were sworn and with the lighting of R'uustai candles and the exchanging of baldrics I can see a great many Starfleet officers and soldiers that fought alongside the Klingons finding themselves members of a Klingon Houses. Still, not quite the same thing though.
The real reason the Gurkhas still serve our country is that (so far) they're paid enough that when they retire, they're set up for life. At least that's how it's supposed to work, I think the MOD have recently been caught short changing them. I'm not sure how much of the old warrior spirit survives in them today as I have it on authority from certain WO2s that the current generation can be a bunch of lazy gobshites when they want to be. Of course that may not be accurate, WO2s often have the distressing habit of talking out of their arses. Not as bad as the Ruperts, of course, but still noticeable. Back in the days of WWII though, about the only thing that mad the Japanese (suicidal nutters that they were) think twice about going out into the jungle is if they heard a Gurkha regiment was in the area. There's an old war story about how after their British "Boss" was KIA they stripped down, got greased up and went into the jungle at night armed only with Kukris and their bare hands and slaughtered a camp full of Japanese. Not sure how much truth there is in the story, but it's supposed to have scared the shit out of Japanese.
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