posted
So Moore said that they were making "Razor" in part to tide everyone over in the big gap between the third and fourth seasons. Well, he frakkin' succeeded. If this doesn't rekindle my obsession (not that I wasn't excited before), then I don't know what would.
Favorite moments:
- The shots of Pegasus in the shipyard, while everything blew up around them.
- Shaw meeting Gina when she boarded the battlestar. Creepy and thrilling at the same time. ("After all, we're only human!")
- The first encounter with the old-style raiders: I'm glad they decided to let us hear "By your command" from the old centurions, just once. There was a huge cheer and laughter from the audience when that happened.
My only major plot complaint: Since it was obvious that Gina not only told the Cylons where Pegasus was, but also enabled them to more easily board the ship, why the hell would the Cylons send other Sixes with the boarding party? Was it hubris, assuming that no one would see them and survive the boarding action? That's the only logical explanation, and considering that this boarding action must've happened right around the same time as "33," it makes little sense for them to be so overconfident. Even if it's arguably in-character for said Cylons.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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posted
I'd say hubris pretty much covers it, they expected to win and why not? They had just wiped out twenty billion people and about a hundred and eighteen Battlestars. I suppose they thought, worse case scenario she gets found out and executed on site. They didn't count on just how depraved humans can be.
Interesting that the Cylon God is in fact the first hybrid, I wonder if it has some connection with Harvey-Six and Harvey-Baltar? He seamed to believe his existence would continue in some form after his body is destroyed, which may have something to do with the whole final five/D'anna/between life and death in the Kobol opera house thing...or not. The fact that he seamed concerned for the well-being of humanity dose line up with the apparantly differing agendas of the flesh and blood Cylons and the "Angels" that constantly bug Gaius and Caprica-6.
One niggle, though not about the movie exactly; What ever happened to that civilian engineer bloke they pressed into service? I recall he replaced Tyrol during the Pegesus two parter, but after that he seamed to vanish, along with the Peg's original CAG.
Oh yes and I like that the old Centurions spoke, which for one thing distinguishes them from the current models. Unlike the the modern automatons these things are conscious in a way akin to the skinjobs, just trapped in a crude shell.
posted
I thought it was especially odd sending another Six aboard since she was unarmed and not very closely escorted by Centurions. One explanation could be that she wanted to find her fellow model and free her, but that's not very in character for the fairly unemotional Cylons(aside from the distinctive ones who have names), especially since they must've had a method of resurrecting at that point.
Other little nods I liked was the appearance of the Rising Star from the original series and Starbuck's line near the end after the strike team eject from the Raptor. "Ain't it grand when a plan comes together!" I bet someone's been waiting for years to write that.
Over all a very, very good episode, possibly my favourite of the whole series. One concern could have been that Shaw had virtually no personality, but it made sense since she was practically brainwashed. And from a story point of view, she was only going to be killed off at the end anyway, so as long as she served as a vehicle for the major events in Pegasus's journey, she didn't warrant much building up.
posted
Yeah watched this a week or so ago, and it was great! Can't wait for the season to start proper. How's the whole writers strike thing going? As I hope to hell it doesn't mess with BSG!
Of all the things I thought about Starbuck, I never saw her being the harbinger or angel of death. It think it was Leobin who was quoting the first hybrid in that "all this has happened before, and will happen again." And how that Starbuck should embrace her destiny. Perhaps his closer spiritual link to the "cylon God," allowed him to see Starbuck as the harbinger of death, and that by getting her to accept her destiny she would help further the Cylon agenda, namely the destruction of mankind.
It strikes me odd though, that the Cylons view the first hybrid as a God, but the other hybrids are basically enslaved.
I loved the "By your command" from the original Centurians, I actualy laughed out loud when I heard it! I hope a few more of those old style Cylons are still out there, as they're just so much cooler than the newer ones.
Here's a thought, the same time the original Cylons were making the skinjobs I presume they created the ressurection process. So the first hybrid might not be as dead as they think, and that he ressurected himself somewhere else.
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quote:Originally posted by OverRon: Yeah watched this a week or so ago, *snip*
You mean you illegally downloaded a bootleg copy. I'm all for... shall we say, "unconventional" forms of media distribution, but to download something that has not even been released yet is despicable, IMO. Just wait and watch with the rest of us. If you don't want to take the time to actually go to the theaters or watch it when it airs, then sucks to be you.
On a lighter note, I completely forgot about that "Ain't it grand when a plan comes together!" line. And of course it had to be Starbuck that said it!
As for Shaw, I strongly disagree with Johnny's comment, that she had no personality. When we first meet her, it's clear even then that she's career military, working her way up the ranks. And the entire point of her character was that we see through her eyes to what happened to the Pegasus under Cain's command. It tells the other side of the story that we saw in the original episodes where the ship first joined the fleet. That she made the same choices that Cain made, but could represent some of the good sides of those choices.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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posted
Annndddd. . . Here we go again. You want this to be an Americans-only Forum? I'm sure it's possible, if they can lock out foreign views of content on the Sci-Fi website, I'm sure Charles can do something similar using IPs, he's quite a clever chap. Yes, Ron downloaded the illegally-leaked screener copy. So did I. So did many, many others, many of whom were prevented from attending a screening in only about a dozen major American cities for quite pertinent geographical reasons. And it's no different to all the other episode which I also downloaded and watched illegally. So I have not been exposed to the advertising provided by the channel's sponsors. I shrug off this karmic heaviness by planning to buy the DVDs one day when they produce a decent box set, and also knowing that I even got my Dad into watching it, about the last person you'd ever expect to watch a space show.
(On the other hand, he called me the other day and asked which to watch first, Stargate SG-1 or Stargate: Atlantis. I did tell him not to bother, since with approximately 15 years of programming to work through, he would probably find it hard to get into, let alone through)
Anyway. In summary: get off your high horse.
So, good ep. Nothing majorly special, no real surprises (but, gee, does that Steve Bacic have some bad luck playing XOs or what?). Shaw's demise was a certainty from the start - no going off to live happily ever after "somewhere else in the fleet" for that one. The whole thing where the Hybrid tells her that Starbuck will doom the human race was silly, it'd be nice to write it off as a ploy to stop her detonating her bomb in favour of getting a message back to Galactica but I suspect it'll turn out to be more than that.
posted
The show's already set to end, so it's not like downloading can actively hurt it in any significant way.
As for the show itself:
1. The Guardians' old raiders had jump drives, given that they jumped in during the Pegasus rescue recon. Was this an add-on or did the old raiders have FTL even during the war?
2. A science party gone missing in a Raptor . . . I had such a TNG vibe there. Then there was Lee pulling a Sisko by making Shaw the XO . . . not to mention the quasi-assimilation threat of the hybrid.
3. They say the Hybrid was en route to Earth, too, and note that its base-ship-thingy had FTL. Other than for the express purpose of being destroyed, where is the logic in it not running? Leaving the old raiders behind would not have been a problem, what with their FTL.
4. The characterization of Cain was not especially deep.
She decided on-screen things we already knew she had decided (e.g. kill the XO, screw the civilian fleet, et cetera), but we got no further look into her decision other than the added bonus of Gina-betrayal-feelings. The only decision we came to understand more deeply was why she was allowing Gina to be so thoroughly abused, but as a captured Cylon being harshly interrogated this was of little extra value.
Though the thought of Ensign Ro and Six together is hot. I'm just sayin'.
5. Shouldn't the Cylon be way more pissed? I mean, unless I'm mistaken, Pegasus killed God.
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
posted
I have what you might call moral ambiguity towards the whole download thing... I freely admit to having downloaded every ep of Galactica, and I also freely admit to having purchased every DVD that's been released. The problem is that sci-fi is still viewed with disdain and even outright hostility in this sunny South Africa, so if we do get anything at all, we get it at least a year late.
I don't have a problem bootlegging, because if I like it, I'll buy it (so the bean-counters will support it's continuity) and if I don't like it, I'll just stop watching it. Everything evens out in the end.
Now that the digression is over...
I loved it... beyond the Pegasus arc, I loved how it tied into the first war: how it "all happened before and will happen again" (though I don't think they mean it that literally)
I loved the idea of renegade Cylons hiding out and carrying on a war that ended decades before... just like those stories you hear about Japanese soldiers growing old in some jungle, continuing to man their posts cos nobody bothered to tell them the war was over.
I liked that Caine also got to shag Six. That was a nice touch.
I liked the inheritance of the knife... which almost certainly dooms Starbuck to die (as the previous 2 owners did)
And of course "by your command" got a good little chuckle from me.
Also, I don't think the first hybrid actually was seen as a god by the Cylons... he was cut off from the Cylon civilisation with no reinforcement and no resupply. I'm thinking the first hybrid was some sort of threat to the new Cylon order and subsequently cut loose. Like OveRon said, the new Hybrids are practically slaves, while the 'first' hybrid seems to have some level of free will. Maybe that was a trait the Cylons didn't want.
Anyway, I'm sure we'll find out in S4. I can't wait.
-------------------- "Brave men are vertebrates: they have their softness on the outside, and their toughness in the middle" -Lewis Carrol
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posted
I'm a bit hazy why the proto-Hybrid and his toaster collection decided to light out for parts unknown. I think it's because it was, as Athena puts it, an evolutionary dead-end that was abandoned apart from being used as the basis of the true Hybrid, the base-start controller version. It saw the wrtiing on the wall, and scarpered. Some other, indeterminate method was then used to create the twelve humaniform Cylon models (or rather, the five and then the seven, since indications are that Tigh & Co are different somehow from Six & Co).
We may find there's more to it. Perhaps at the time of the creation of the proro-Hybrid, the prevaling attitude among the Cylons was that the creation of biological/humaniform Cylons was a step backwards, or too far forwards! Maybe there was a fear that, like the Pigs in Animal Farm, the new Cylons would simply replace Humanity, as their masters. Some spoilers out there about the Centurions in season 4 would tend to bear this out.
quote:Annndddd. . . Here we go again. You want this to be an Americans-only Forum? I'm sure it's possible, if they can lock out foreign views of content on the Sci-Fi website, I'm sure Charles can do something similar using IPs, he's quite a clever chap. Yes, Ron downloaded the illegally-leaked screener copy. So did I. So did many, many others, many of whom were prevented from attending a screening in only about a dozen major American cities for quite pertinent geographical reasons. And it's no different to all the other episode which I also downloaded and watched illegally. So I have not been exposed to the advertising provided by the channel's sponsors. I shrug off this karmic heaviness by planning to buy the DVDs one day when they produce a decent box set, and also knowing that I even got my Dad into watching it, about the last person you'd ever expect to watch a space show.
Sorry Dan, but I'm going to have to agree with Lee on this one. Being stranded in the middle of sunny Wiltshire, the chances of seeing this through other means before next March are decidedly slim. So yes, I downloaded a copy and yes I will buy the DVD.
Which as understand it is a good 20 mins longer, so I imagine we'll be getting more insight into Cain and other things not vital to the immediate plot.
As for the Cylon god thing, the impression I was left with is that he ran off by himself and was not cut loose. As for the modern hybrids being slaves, I think it's a continuation of the pattern the Cylons began when they left their entierly mechanical bodies and made them into their attack dogs. It's possible they lived as hybrids themselves for a time before perfecting organic bodies and again, still wanting to be in charge of their civilisation they turned the hybrids into slaves too.
posted
You guys are right, I completely forgot about this being a US-only release. Sorry!
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
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posted
I'm Canadian. I did the download, and I will buy this on DVD. And you're a cobbler whore, Dan!
I've seen it, and I have mixed emotions. Certainly on a fanboy level it was REALLY fun to see all the "old" designs in action, but I just found teh whole thing more of a "follow the plotline" thing. They went over everything that Cain and Fisk and the mechanic guy talked about, but as mentioned above they didn't go into any real detail behind motivations beyond what we already knew. The Gina/Cain thing was basically it, and everyone else was going through the motions and not adding anything really new. While I believed Shaw as a character, there was little that really grabbed me about her.
And the whole "Adama on the last day of the war" thing felt pretty tacked on... I thought they should have just made a separate movie concerning the previous war (I'm not really a fan of the "Caprica" thing). Also, was that supposed to be Leoben in the frosted window? Was that why we never really saw his face? I can't find the actor in the credits, but it sure sounded like him...
quote:Originally posted by MinutiaeMan: [QUOTE]Originally posted by OverRon: [qb] As for Shaw, I strongly disagree with Johnny's comment, that she had no personality. When we first meet her, it's clear even then that she's career military, working her way up the ranks. And the entire point of her character was that we see through her eyes to what happened to the Pegasus under Cain's command. It tells the other side of the story that we saw in the original episodes where the ship first joined the fleet. That she made the same choices that Cain made, but could represent some of the good sides of those choices.
I'm not saying she didn't have a role to play. As I said in my post, she was very important narrative-wise in guiding the viewer through all these events we'd heard about and showing how the Pegasus crew had been conditioned. I just don't think she was very engaging as a character. She went from being a bit nervous to begin with, to following orders absolutely. I didn't feel there was any middle ground where she questioned what she was doing at all(except perhaps with the Scylla incident). She did what she'd been instructed to by Cain, not to second guess herself, just do it. That's fine, she was a "razor", it was her purpose. I guess I'm saying that I really don't mind that we'll never see her again.
posted
Well I was quite suprised by the reaction from MinutiaeMan. Yes I downloaded it, but what other way did I have of seeing this? Like Lee I'm "geographically challenged," so the only chance I have of seeing stuff like this, at a similar time as the Americans on this board, is to download them.
It's not like I'm some pirate bootlegger, sat in a room surrounded by PC's, downloading shows, burning them to DVD, and selling them down the local market. I download them watch them, and when I get the chance I buy the DVD's.
Anyways...
I felt that the Adama being there on his first combat mission, on the last day of war, seemed a little convinient. I'd always assumed that Adama did a lot more during the original war.
As for the DVD having 20 extra minutes? I'm guessing it'll have the Razor Webisodes spliced in somewhere.
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