posted
I've seen two well-reasoned bits of speculation as to who it is.
One concludes it's Roslin - but he ignores the fact that RDM has said she's not, and that the FC isn't in the Last Supper painting (when Roslin is). OK, acknowledge Moore's statements then discount them as smoke-screens if you desire, but don't just ignore them.
And, as I said in the discussion thread for a previous ep (I think, might have been on a different forum), the other blogged argument constructs a short-list of potential secondary characters, only to then largely ignore why it might or might not be A, B, or C to then concentrate on why he's absolutely certain it's D. His logic is better but still sloppy.
Another interesting note: in the podcast for the episode where Ellen Tigh puts in an appearance, RDM acknowledges the fact that her appearance on the set became public knowledge and led to speculation that she was back for a flashback appearance. However, he completely ignored the other speculation making the rounds - that she was filming her appearances as the FC. Make of that what you will.
And, much much better ep this week. A welcome return to form. I was dreading Nana Visitor's appearance but she put in a really great performance. And, how shocking was Bald Laura when you first saw her? Other confusion: when we first saw Barolay she had long hair, while Seelix had short hair; now it's the other way around and I did keep wondering if Seelix had had a haircut between the teaser and getting on the Raptor!
Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
Reverend: I have to repeat, whether they actually travel through space or not is irrelevant. The end result is the same: Information is going from point A to point B more quickly than it could get there traveling through space at light speed. It isn't physical travel through space faster than light that is prohibited by relativity; it's any exchange of information including quantum states, location, momentum, mass, and so on. It's why quantum physics is such a headache; there are things that appear to happen instantaneously. Either we're wrong about that or we're wrong about relativity. If BSG wants to be less speculative and more "hard" sci-fi, they can't invent a magical FTL that has no relativistic effects, because according to our current knowledge that's flat-out impossible.
Might Ellen Tigh have been showing up on-set to film the sequence where Col. Tigh sees her when talking to Caprica Six? Cuz that's what I assumed...I mean, Tigh died on New Caprica, so if the Final Five reincarnate then she'd have been reborn on the Cylon occupation force's resurrection ship. Hence the Cylons proper would've known about her, but the "alliance" Cylons in this ep didn't have a clue who any of the Five were.
I think the Last Supper painting was a smokescreen. Too many people in it. Just a hunch though.
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quote:Originally posted by Daniel Butler: If BSG wants to be less speculative and more "hard" sci-fi, they can't invent a magical FTL that has no relativistic effects, because according to our current knowledge that's flat-out impossible.
Why not? They seem to have other contrivances that are rooted firmly in the realm of speculative fiction such as artificial gravity.
Further, the Cylon resurrection process defies quantum physics. The Cylon dies and his/hers consciousness is transferred to a resurrection ship or base that is several light years distant.
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
We're not certain exactly what the range of a resurrection ship/facility is, they're very clever about not painting themselves into a corner that way.
As for Galactica being "hard" sci-fi; as Herb points out that's simply not the case. Yes the phones have cords and yes the visual effects team seam to have a reasonable grasp of physics; that is enough to fake it so it looks authentic enough, but not at the expense of drama. However there's plenty in the show that is more fiction than science. Harvey Six being a huge example, as is Cylon cybernetic technology in general, artificial gravity and let's not forget the light show in the tomb of Athena. FLT is a necessary plot devise. Without it, it'd take them millennia to get anywhere. As far as the lack of relativistic effects go, as I said, the detection of the Cloud 9 explosion proves that there is none (at least not very much) to say nothing of the numerous instances of timed rendezvous.
As for the how, we can only theorise it uses higher dimensional physics that is at present, beyond our understanding. I mean it's not like we've cracked all the secrets of the universe and even what we do "know" isn't correct 100% of the time. After all, it's called the THEORY of relativity, not the laws of relativity. I think even Einstein wasn't totally satisfied that they'd accounted for everything.
posted
You are all wrong. Boxey is the last Cylon, obviously.
Blind fools...
-------------------- "Its coming on. I just saw the wall move..."
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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
I'm willing to dismiss artificial gravity in even the most gritty hard sci-fi until it becomes cheap as dirt to do zero-gee effects. It's just not practical, after all.
As for the Athena tomb light show, well, it could've been a hologram and we've got the basis for that technology now. The Colonials are more advanced than we are, even at the time of the original Exodus.
The Cylons are also easily possible. I mean, the point of not being speculative in my book is that they're not doing anything magical in this show. No hand-waving, technobabble, unobtanium. Artificial intelligence is well within the possible if you have the technology; it isn't, for example, warp drive or ring transporters or stasis pods.
Reverend, I get that you're saying there obviously are no relativistic effects. I'm saying that ranks me. But man, don't call it a THEORY like that means it might not be true. I expect more out of the people on this forum...a theory is a group of ideas which explain a phenomenon or phenomena. It has nothing to do with how well supported (read: "true") it is; it doesn't progress from "theory" to "law." Laws are what make up theories. The theory of relativity is extremely well supported. For it not to be that completely untrue would be very complicated, and the universe tends to be built on simple laws, not complicated ones.
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
A certain amount of suspension of disbelief is necessary. You're willing to suspend disbelief about artificial gravity due to FX limitations. Why not suspend disbelief about relativity affects for the sake of drama/story telling?
There really is no conceivable way they could tell this story if they adjusted every episode for time-dilation and relativistic affects. Sure, it's conceivable for the fleet to stay together but that's about it. Send a raptor off to patrol and jump back? Not a chance. Who would be in the future and who would be in the past? What could possibly happen to the Fleet during the years the raptor was gone on a simple scouting mission (when the raptor crew felt like they were gone only an hour)?
Cylon pursuit would be nearly out of the question too for the same reason.
Funny thing about our theories... they adjust and change over time as new facts are learned. We may yet learn something in the future that will cause us to adjust our current theory of relativity.
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I didn't say the theory of relativity is fundamentally untrue, just that even the bloke that came up with it wasn't 100% satisfied it accounted for everything. In short, we don't know everything yet, so it's a fluid concept, not exactly set in stone.
As for gravity, anyone who watched B5 will know there's no reason to invent gravity generators just to get around production limitations. Just design ships with rotating sections - yes, I know they have at least one already - point is there's a conscious decision to make Colonial tech a little more advanced than we're currently capable of. That includes FTL, Artificial Gravity, glowing spines, magical Tylium juice and whatever they use to power those big arse sublight engines. We won't know for certain until we see the new Caprica series, but I suspect the colonies underwent a bit of a technological regression as a result of the Cylon war, at lest in terms of automation so we have a somewhat skewed perspective of their technology with a 40 year old Battlestar that seams to have been intentionally "dumbed down".
The fact is, this is a civilisation that was crossing interstellar distances millennia before they created the Cylons. For all we know the scientific know-how behind the jump drives may have been all but forgotten. The drives they're running now could very well be just copies of the original drive from the Kobol "Galleon" and while they know how to build new ones and basically how they work they may not actually understand WHY they work. Since that ship was apparantly made by "Gods" (who or whatever they might have been) you can easily say they were just REALLY advanced and invoke Clarke's Third Law. There are a few precedents for this in "hard" sci-fi. For example; the Holtzman effect from the Dune books is used to account for most of the "magical" tech (Foldspace, Shields & Suspensors) while it was stated that know-one actually knew how it all worked despite the fact the civilisation had been using it for more than 10,000 years. Also the Jumpgates in B5 are said to have already been there when all the current races first got out into space and none of them knew exactly how they worked, but were able to replicate them. One assumes the Vorlons were responsible, but they never owned up or asked for patent rights, so who knows. The Stargate Universe is based on exactly the same conceit with ancient and magical technology just left lying around all over the place.
posted
I've taken to thinking the glowing spines are simply glowing for our (the viewer') sake, much the same way as those scrimmage and down lines appear on the TV screen during a football game or the way the hockey puck used to glow during an NHL telecast.
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Daniel Butler
I'm a Singapore where is my boat
Member # 1689
posted
I'm willing to suspend disbelief. I just want the thing to be consistent, i.e., either hard sci-fi or not. To me, it's either go all-out and be *really* scientific about it, or just do what the hell you want like they do in fantasy and soft sci-fi. I don't care if it's an Elven spell or an Alteran wormhole generator, the characters still get from A to B immediately, and that's fine if it doesn't become a deus ex machina. The story should be about the people, not the magic/tech. That's not something you can easily relate to. If stories are art they should make you feel something and that requires it to be character- or plot-driven but not environment-driven.
The tech or magic should facilitate the story, in other words, and not the other way around - I just want them to be internally consistent, instead of apparently obeying a certain set of laws (in this case real-world science) except when they don't want to (which jars me out of the experience and stops my suspension of disbelief). It'd be like Stargate suddenly allowing a wormhole to be open for more than 38 minutes for no apparent reason or explanation - you just start to go "What? The hell?" and spend the rest of the episode with your brow furrowed at the screen. Or I do anyway...
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
That is exactly what this show is; it's a drama about people and it is most certainly not about the hardware. The nuts and bolts feel of the show it's just that, a feel, not a sign that says "we've figured out every last technical detail of this ship". Despite that, by and large what tech we are exposed to (which is precious little as RDM doesn't want any Trek style technobabble) obeys certain rules. For instance the FTL takes time to spool up and calculate a jump and it has to be synchronised with the whole fleet or they won't all jump to the same place. If you open an airlock or blow a hole in the hull, there be vacuum outside and no magical forcefield to make it all better. When a ship's engine goes dead it keeps on drifting as per the laws of inertia and when you shoot someone it REALLY hurts. Now when it comes to the FTL, ALL Sci-Fi have to make the conceit and invoke Clark's 3rd law of of sheer narrative necessity and just so long as they obey their own rules, it's not a problem. Even "hard Sci-Fi" like 2001: A Space Odyssey does it. How dose Galactica's FTL work? Same as a Heisenberg compensator - very well thank you.
posted
Rev, I'm pretty sure you mean either WWII, or WWIV.
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted
See, that's why I think it IS believable. But such complicated actions like FTL, etc... I just don't know. Seems like advanced computers and networks would be needed.
Not saying they don't have advanced computers. There just must not be a central computer core. Every work station must have it's on CPU.
I'm just too jaded/used to this 21st Century life of networked computers, Internet, etc...
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