quote: A second clause he [Orson Scott Card] did not get in was this; the races/nationalities of the children in the battleschool reflect, approximately and proportionally, the races/nationalities of the world. In other words only about 25% white, if that; it is after all a worldwide school, taking only the twenty brightest children, culled from the entire world, about every 3-6 months. He was flat out told "Not a chance in hell. There will be a handful of token characters from other races but every other child will be white." As the studio execs pointed out, if there are too many background characters that aren't white, white people will be afraid to go see it.
Its kinda interesting to compare this to the still mainly white casts of Star Wars and to a lesser but still noticable degree Star Trek, whatever incarnation. Kinda reminds me of the "why are there so few Asians in Star Trek" threads, but from a compltely different angle.
We scare you white people
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Interesting. If I were Card, I would have refused to sign the contract. Possibly the publishers own the rights, and the movie could have been made, anyway. But I still would have given them zero cooperation.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Hollywood isn't just racist. They assume most of America (rightly or wrongly) is racist. This is particularly amusing when you consider that the people who are most endeared with Ender's Game are not redneck beer guzzlers who wish the KKK was still a force to be feared...In my experience that sort of people don't read much, and if they do, it ain't science fiction.
If it's ONLY a bunch of white kids in the movie Ender's Game will lose a good deal of it's punch for me...it's supposed to be a true planetary effort. Besides, why would Hollywood be worried that there are black and asian kids in the movie? The hero is still a white kid, for christ's sake. There's still that comfort zone for your racist masses.
Shit, if I were the director, I'd cast a black kid as Ender Wiggin just to piss those fuckers off, and THEN watch in glee as the movie STILL pulls in two hundred million.
The fact that Ender is white has nothing to do with the story. He could be from anywhere (anywhere that's fairly affluent, at least, as to better contrast him against Bean) and the story would play the same.
OSC has had one hell of a time getting this movie made...which frankly sucks. It should be a great movie barring any major studio intervention.
posted
He did indeed have a hell of a time getting it made. I'm not at all surprised he was willing to let this one slide.
Frankly, I've never been pleased with a hollywood adapttion of a major sf novel - it consistently gets fucked up. Heinlein, Herbert, Clarke... lets face it, the movie moguls don;t read sf - and they aren't making movies for sf readers. The movies are made for sf movie watchers - a much lower common denominator.
I dread the day TPTB get there hands on a MAJOR sf work that I care about - such as Stranger in a Strange Land. I'll weep for a month.
-------------------- 'One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.' - Lazarus Long
Registered: Feb 2001
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1- I do consider EG a good piece of sf. I was decrying the lack of quality in the conversion of any good sf to film.
2- EG is good. SISL is a major sf work (along with Dune and maybe 3 others. I don't consider EG to be at the same level. No one in my sf club does. Card doesn't. Not to insult EG - its pretty good. A Dodge Stealth is a good car - but it isn't a Ferrari.
3- SISL isn't dated. Good sf never is. It isn't the technology of a sf novel which dates it - or the geography (areology?) - such as Mars not be inhabitable. It is the revelance of the message the sf seeks to send. Good sf is a vehicle for new modes of thought - new ideas. That is why so little cinema is good sf - and so few novels today.
4- End of sermon. Now, if you had said Heinlein was dated (or not relevant) I would have said a pox on your house.
-------------------- 'One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.' - Lazarus Long
Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Thoughtchopper: If it's ONLY a bunch of white kids in the movie Ender's Game will lose a good deal of it's punch for me...it's supposed to be a true planetary effort. Besides, why would Hollywood be worried that there are black and asian kids in the movie? The hero is still a white kid, for christ's sake. There's still that comfort zone for your racist masses.
Sorry, Thoughtychops, but did you actually read the article? There's an ever so slightly difference between "Every other kid will be white" and "ALL the kids will be white".
And if that's taken literally, a 50% ethnic cast is still fairly impressive for a major Hollywood film.
And regarding te notion that he should have refused to make it there and then...making TV and films isn't like writing a novel, it's all about compromise. If he lets one thing slide in order to let the rest of the story come through, surely that's good?
Or, to put it another way, what would have happened if Roddenberry had pulled Star Trek because he couldn't keep both Spock and Number One?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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And for those who are convinced that the genre audience is somehow more "evolved" and race-blind than those redneck heathen curs, take a look at the general fanboy response to the casting of Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin.
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
Registered: Mar 1999
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I think I can think of more than three "major" works of SF, though, and I think many of them would qualify as "major" works of 20th century literature in general.
And, really, science fiction is the 20th century anyway, ground up and spit back to us in hyperkinetic form. Lord knows what we'll do for reading material now, though.
Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:Originally posted by The_Tom: A good point, Liam.
And for those who are convinced that the genre audience is somehow more "evolved" and race-blind than those redneck heathen curs, take a look at the general fanboy response to the casting of Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin.
I don't know who Michael Clark Duncan is, but since it is implied that he is not white, it could be argued that the producers were racist for casting a non-white man as a white villain. We can't have a white man as a villain. As long as this guy is really fat, I could care less what color he is. Besides�who cares about the Kingpin, I would think people would be more pissed off that they cast Ben Affleck in the title role.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
You left out an important part of what was said, Liam-dude.
quote: He was flat out told "Not a chance in hell. There will be a handful of token characters from other races but every other child will be white."
That doesn't sound like anything approaching a 50% ratio to me. It sounds like there will be one black kid, one asian kid, maybe a Mexican, and a bunch of white kids.
Now, I used that damned fool word "All"--and I've learned that's a stupid thing to do--but otherwise I stand by what I said.
And Trek: I was half-way kidding about Stranger. I think it's a great book, though the free love vibe sort of tarnishes it for cynical old me.
I think Ender's Game is a better novel, and I think it's breaks more ground. Just my opinion though, no biggie.
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
See, I can do the quote and emphasise with italics bit too...
quote: He was flat out told "Not a chance in hell. There will be a handful of token characters from other races but every other child will be white."
Every other. Which would mean...50%. Do you see?
And you've kinda missed the main point of my argument. Do you really think that he should withdraw the whole film just for the sake of one detail?
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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I don't think they meant "every other child" as in "every second child". They meant "every other child" as in "all the children except the aforementioned handful'". After all, if it was 50% white kids and a handful of other races, who would make up the rest? After all, if the "handful" were the entire other 50%, then there would also only be a handful of white kids. Making only two handfuls of kids altogether. And there have to be a lot more than two handfuls.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Except that the first handful would be a mix, and the second handful would all be one colour.
Still, point conceded. I still think that pulling the whole film for that reason would be a bit silly, especially if it's taken this long to get the film going.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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