posted
To address the last point first... Blaster and Soundwave carried microcassettes -- the things you put in those pocket dictation recorders. And I devised a way for my Soundwave toy to carry two tapes, but the trial-and-error process destroyed him anyway. Just have a spring-loaded back panel to the cassette compartment(s).
Now then, Liam. I meant Skyfire -- the character as depicted in the cartoons. The comic Jetfire was somewhere between the cartoon and toy in design, and never looked as good as the cartoon version. And the toy named Jetfire was a VF-1S Valkyrie from Macross. That ain't what I'm talking about.
As for Megatron, the Microman toy line had been around for years by the time Marvel/Hasbro got involved. There were two versions of the P38 made, as well as a Colt M1911 .45 and a .357 Magnum revolver. Both versions of the P38 had the same gross transformation, but the faces, colours, and accessories were different. However, both were "refined" versions of a prototype whose design was what got sent to Sunbow to use as a character model for Megatron before said refinements were made to the toy. Me, I think the finished version looks like ass compared to the prototype. I'll upload pics as soon as I get a new Jaz drive. My old one died a couple weeks ago, cutting me off from 90% of my picture archives, among other things.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
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Maybe. Except that weren't the designs used by Sunbrow based on simplified versions of the character designs Romita had done by simplifying the box artwork? That seems as good a reason as any for Megatron to look different to the toy version.
Although Megatron did have a different character design for the first two and a bit issues of the (US) comic. He abbruptly gets a new head and fusion cannon half way through the third issue, for some reason. So possibly they were using a prototype. Except that the cartoon version is based on the second comic design, and not the first, so what was the first one based on?
Did the prototype have a black or blue helmet? Or was that a change Sunbrow made? Or Marvel?
And as to the tapes, yeah, they were meant to be microcassetes, except that in the comic and cartoon we saw them put into normal sized tape players. Of course, maybe they have two alt-mode size settings, like Megatron's "human hand sized" and "Starscream hand sized" settings. But I can't see how you can get a robot that looks like, say, Ravage that becomes a proper cassette without a LOT of add on parts.
And for a useless trivia fact that people probably already know: Takara did do a version of Soundwave (and Blaster) that could carry two cassettes. Woo.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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posted
The tapes have to have multiple sizes, if only because they always fit exactly into Soundwave's chest, regardless of whether he's a 20-foot-tall robot or a foot-tall tape player.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Yeah, I know. I meant multiple sizes when transformed. Lots of transformers change size when they transform, but some, such as Megatron (or indeed, Soundwave) have two different alternative-mode sizes...human and Transformer. So the cassettes would need 3 different alt-mode sizes...human microcassette size, human normal cassette size, and Soundwave's-chest-in-robot-mode size.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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It's a Japan thing. Soundwave and his tapes were part of the Microman line, which included the guns I mentioned above, this Walkman-type thing, and the microscope/tank that would become Perceptor. Everything was 1:1 scaled. In Microman, that was the size of the robots and the battlefield they engaged on. And the stickers on the tapes reflect that. They have all the appropriate audio cassette markings on the obverse, including the word "MICROCASSETTE". And Soundwave's gun and missile launcher are AA batteries.
And Liam, he meant multiple sizes when transformed, too. Remember how Soundwave will eject a cassette while he's a 50-foot-tall robot? And remember how those same cassettes will also fit in a Transformer's or human's hand? Varying mass, same as the others mentioned.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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Yeah. Still, I don't think they ever became microcassette sized, in either the comic or the cartoon.
And I want to see this prototype pic, damnit! I've just picked up Target: 2006, and am all nostalgicy.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Well, if the microcassettes were part of some Japanese thing where Soundwave was a Walkman, rather than a boom box (is that term even used in the current vernacular anymore?), then I don't see why that would apply to the original cassettes. It's like trying to rectify Optimus Prime and Megatron being a semi and a gun in one series, and a fire truck and a dragon thing in another. Either you assume they changed at some point, or you assume they're completely different versions of the story.
Actually, my reference to "Robots in Disguise" might be a mistake. I saw, like, one episode of the show. I didn't even watch the whole thing 'cause it was crap.
Anyway, now I'm not even sure what we're debating here. There was a suggestion that it would be impossible to make cassette toys that could actually fit inside Soundwave's chest. I still don't see what would be so hard about it.
Registered: Mar 1999
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I'd love to watch a show in which Walkmans (Walkmen?) and assorted other appliances could come to life and plot against their owners. Like a cross between the Philip Dick story "The Little Movement" and, uh...well, probably another Dick story.
"True paranoia is not 'That man is plotting against me' but 'My coffeepot is plotting against me.'", to paraphrase.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Liam, I have to ask your patience on this one. By mid-December I'll have all my images burned onto CDs, and will be able to stop having to rely on my dead Jaz drive or its replacement. I'll be back home from my parents' on January 5th. If you can defer final Megatron judgement til then, I promise to post that pic of the prototype.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
Registered: Feb 2001
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Tim: No, that's not it. My argument was that, since the new "Alternators" (as I believe they're called) are going to both transform and be completely show accurate, I don't think they'll be able to do the tapes without a LOT of add on parts. Which is pretty much what the originals were, I suppose.
The RID reference was right, except that Megatron (Gigatron) in that series was actually a robot, two headed dragon, Batmobile-From-Hell, Scary-Jet-Thing, Bat, and GIANT HAND! And then some more, later on. And it wasn't quite crap. Okay, it was, but it was fun crap. Armada is just rubbish.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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Also, regarding the cartoon "look"... Yes, Sunbow had to simplify things for ease of repetitive drawing, but their animation models were based off of John Romita's work for the comic, where he took the Diaclone/Microchange/whatever toys and "humanised" them. I can't think of a single character who came out of that process looking worse than their original toy incarnation. Brawn, Wheeljack, Ironhide, Ratchet, Trailbreaker, Huffer, Bumblebee, and Windcharger benefited greatly from the reworking. I don't think anyone would have been as fond of those characters (Wheeljack's a great example) had they retained their frankly alien/strange/faceless looks.
--Jonah
P.S. But no, this isn't the case with Megatron. His Romita character study, and from that the animation model, were pretty damn close to the look of the Takara prototype. The finished toy has very different arms, head, and some subtle differences in transformation hardpoints (the prototype has the pistol barrel folded so as to stick up behind the right shoulder, as seen in the comic and cartoon, where the finished toy couldn't do that) -- and especially the groin/trigger area.
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
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Where the hell did John Romita do anything for Transformers? Not the Marvel comic. I've met John Romita (even got a drawing by him nad JRJR) a few years back but never heard anything about that.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
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Early '80s. 1983, I think. When he was creating all the character studies for G.I. Joe for Marvel/Hasbro, Marvel/Hasbro was also developing the Transformers from the original Japanese properties, and tapped him to -- as I said -- humanize some of the more bizarre TFs. I think he did a pass at all of the first-year TFs. Essentially 25 characters, as the humanoid cassettes and the Decepticon jets share basic body styles. After that, the regular artist(s) on the comic were able to follow his lead for later additions.
--Jonah
-------------------- "That's what I like about these high school girls, I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
--David "Woody" Wooderson, Dazed and Confused
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It wasn't as important for all the movie characters and beyond, since they were actually designed to be part of the Transformers line, so they tended to have more "human" looks from the get go.
quote:Originally posted by Peregrinus: (the prototype has the pistol barrel folded so as to stick up behind the right shoulder, as seen in the comic and cartoon, where the finished toy couldn't do that)
I dunno. I'd read you can get it to go on his back on the toy. I haven't got it (and I'm not going to spend a fortune importing one from Japan, since it seems a fairly average toy with a horrible robot mode), but I've heard it can be moved to there.
And did the prototype have a black, blue, or white helmet, eh? I have to know, for the good of all.
-------------------- Yes, you're despicable, and... and picable... and... and you're definitely, definitely despicable. How a person can get so despicable in one lifetime is beyond me. It isn't as though I haven't met a lot of people. Goodness knows it isn't that. It isn't just that... it isn't... it's... it's despicable.
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