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Oh my friends... even more than last week, how much have I missed you! It's about time that we get back to the show that we all fell in love with! Especially with all the clever and poetic twists and turns we see...
First, I have to admit that, for just one split second, I had the crazy feeling that Baltar would actually, truly turn out to be a Cylon. Then logic kicked in and I realized that it would be so anticlimactic. Then I realized that "Caprica Six" having Baltar in her head was so perfectly appropriate that I can't believe I never thought of it before.
This whole episode is one that's obviously needed to be done since almost the very beginning, and we � or I, at least � never saw it coming, despite some obvious hinting (like Adama telling Tyrol that he'll see Sharon again).
More than that, this was the very first glimpse into Cylon society. I have to admit that I feel slightly disappointed, although I can't explain exactly why... maybe because it seems like a rip-off to mimic "Up the Long Ladder" (can anyone say "Send in the Clones"? ). But I can't fault the show too much, considering that the limitation of only twelve models of Humanoid Cylon is something that can/should be maintained. And I have a feeling that it could be justified by the plot.
I think I can best sum up this episode by the following emotions: (1) "Why didn't I see that coming?" ...Something that seems so perfectly logical and obvious, but seemingly comes out of nowhere, regardless. (2) "Oh, you heartless bastards!" ...Seeing the protagonists of the show do something so totally callous as pretending to let Helo's and Boomer's baby die, just to keep her away from the Cylons. (3) "Jeez, how are they going to deal with this little twist!" Never ever have I seen any show continuously mix up all the elements in various ways that cause so much angst and end up with seemingly-devoted characters making complete 180� turns with complete justification.
Oh, and the fact that Anders is still alive? Something else I should've figured would happen, seeing how we never saw him killed. We've got no idea how he's feeling about Kara (who apparently forgot and/or moved on)... Boy, if we weren't in Angst City before...!
Finally, a couple of tidbits for those keeping score: Sharon is Number Eight; Aaron Doral is Number Five, and Xena � err, D'Anna Biers � is Number Three. It's about time that we got some other official numbers! It's almost as good as adding another Cylon model to the list. (Though I'm somewhat annoyed that out of ALL the Cylons we saw, it was apparently nothing by Six-es, Eights, Fives, and Threes, with one Rick Worthy look-alike shot from the rear so they wouldn't have to pay the actor. C'mon, couldn't they have given us one new model for our list?)
I'm sure there's a lot more that I could talk about, but I think I need to stop and digest all this new info I've just downloaded. (Ba dum bum!)
-------------------- “Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.” — Isaac Asimov Star Trek Minutiae | Memory Alpha
Registered: Nov 2000
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How about the bald guy in the crowd? The top of his head didn't resemble any known models, or not to me. Though there is a character with a similar fringe of white hair. . .
Also, you know, clones aren't actually unique to TNG. There were no drunken Irish stereotypes in this episode, either.
My minor complaint, I guess, would be that the Cylons didn't seem quite weird enough. I liked the whole "problem of celebrity in a culture of unity" thing. (Did anyone pay closer attention than I did to the concept of "boxing?" I could use a recap on that point.) Anyway, I like it whenever we see the Cylon replicants acting or reacting in slightly alien ways, like Sharon trying to smash her way through her cell headfirst, or just their general slight lack of affect.
The Baltar/Six thing is just pure crazy. Awesome, but what in the world?
Registered: Mar 1999
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I jotted down notes as I watched the episode because I'm too lazy to write a review (ala you, Sol). So, aside for some gripping on some timeline issues, here we go:
Machine landscapers?
Six's survivor guilt? "Inspiring." Haunted by Baltar's Ghost?
Cottle's bedside manner needs some work - "like hell it will."
"Here of the Cylon" ... first celebrity? Didn't think their 'culture' valued that.
Seduction left as much mark on her (Six) as it did on him (Baltar). Neither of their "ghosts" seem to be a true representative of the way their other truly feels, but rather, how they percieve them to feel.
Sharon is Model Number 8.
Miniseries Six is called "Caprica."
"One might call it inhuman ... oh, right, you are." Best. Line. Ever.
Anders! Didn't expect to see him again.
Wasn't expecting birth until third season ...
Sharon Mk 1's Apartment. Redress of Starbuck's from Valley of Darkness? Maybe Galactica's pilots time-shared.
"Don't go religious with this one." Ooooh, smashing glass.
Sharon uses Navy slang on Caprica. "Head." Heh.
Baltar/Six simultalk: awesome!
Vanity plate in bombed out garage: SEXYMOM. Why is that car's headlights on? Light? Do Cylons need light to see?
"What kind of people are you?"
Cylon fifth column?
Surprise adoption -- did anyone else see this coming a mile away? As soon as Cottle got that list from the female Billy.
No Lee. No Starbuck. Barely any Bill Adama. I'm okay with that -- good to see Sharon Valerii get some much needed screentime.
"Our people need a new beginning."
Okay, I do have a problem with the timeline. In Epiphanies, we learn that it's been six months since Roslin was diagnosed with cancer. Roslin was diagnosed in the miniseries. So, we know that at the thirteenth episode of the second season, six months had passed since the Cylon attack.
At the start of this episode, we learn that nine months has passed since the Cylon attack. Hence, this episode takes place three months after Epiphanies. However, when Sharon Mk. 1 is resurrected into a new body, the "resurrection" sequence is titled "Ten Weeks Ago" ... ten weeks is two and a half months, which means Sharon Mk. 1 would've been killed after Epiphanies. In fact, she was killed nine episodes prior, in Resistance.
Maybe I'm overthinking this.
Nine months makes sense from Sharon Mk. II's pregnancy story, though -- she and Helo got it on pretty early in the 1st season. Timing's a little iffy, but it'll live.
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When they first showed Baltar on Caprica, I'll admit I said to myself, "Holy frak! Baltar's a Cylon! I knew it!" But Harvey Baltar is so much better. It was great to see the Six/Baltar dynamic reversed, and I hope we get to revisit it in the future.
And this episode is making naming conventions all the more difficult. Now "Caprica" Sharon is on Galactica and "Galactica" Sharon is on Caprica. Madness, I say!
-------------------- "Kirito? I killed a thing and now it says I have XPs! Is that bad? Am I dying?"
-Asuna, Episode 2, Sword Art Online Abridged
Registered: Mar 1999
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I'm beginning to wonder about the Cylon's concept of God. I wonder if this God is not a real person or thing rather than a supernatural deity. I have no real basis for this speculation. I'm only saying this after watching so many trek episodes where people do the craziest things for computers they consider God. Interesting to note how Sharon is threatened with having her memory put in cold storage. I wonder if a cyclon's memories would fit on a floppy disk or maybe something bigger like CD-ROM. Yeah it would probably have to be a CD-ROM or two or three or four...
(Say did anyone see the commercial for Dr.Who during the show?)
Registered: Feb 2005
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Quick correction, I meant to say: "I wonder if this God IS a real person or thing rather than a supernatural deity." I would edit the post but the time to do so has expired. Sorry.
Registered: Feb 2005
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The "boxing" they spoke of is simply the act of putting a Cylon's memories in cold storage rather than having them be downloaded into a new body. For the religious-type Cylons, I'd bet that would be like getting sent to limbo or purgatory or whatever.
I really see this episode as the beginning of the end for the Cylon's Big Plan. It's obvious from all this -- especially Caprica Six commenting on the sin of vengeance and murder -- that they're no longer all entirely certain about the right-ness of mass genocide. Obviously Sharon Mk. II still seemed to believe (mostly) in the justification -- or at least the opposite, that Humanity didn't necessarily deserved to live. (Of course, the Cylons didn't realize that not deserving to live does not automatically mean that one does deserve to die.)
Also, I'm a little surprised that the Cylons are actually appearing to do some serious re-settlement of the Colonies. I was kinda hoping to see New Cylonica or whatever they'd decided to call their new homeworld that they went off to find after the First Cylon War.
Registered: Nov 2000
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Their plan for the baby - what's she called? Hara? - was obvious as soon as female Billy handed Cottle the list (well, it was hardly going to be a list of baby-assassins was it?). Just as well, really, because otherwise the sight of that little dead baby would have freaked me out completely, especially given how long my daughter spent in one of those incubators. Either that, or I'm finally getting over the trauma and resulting complex. . . How'd they fake the death? I don't think pumping her with, say, Jack Bauer's metabolism-slowing drug of choice would be too good for a newborn baby, let alone one that's premature.
Just as well Baltar's out of the loop (relations are obviously frosty since he announced his plan to run for President), so Galactica-Six is unaware as well. That could be cheating plotwise, since it allows them to sidestep the question of what she actually is - after all, if she knew the baby was still alive but the other Cylons donn't then that's proof she has no contact with anyone.
Lee, my impression was that the woman who adopted the Cylon child had just given birth -- and that it was her natural born child which died (I don't remember the exact dialogue, but it supports this). This makes sense on several levels: not only will she not have to explain where she got a kid from out of nowhere to the people on the ship she's on, but the ashes that Helo and Tyrol scattered really were -- once -- a life.
posted
You know that's really sick that they would use a real dead baby to fool someone.
Anyways, I notice that the human-like cyclons seem to have much more freedom to do nothing while the mechanical cyclons look like they're stuck doing manual labor and other jobs.
Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Trimm: I'm willing to bet we have not heard the last of this child.
Duh.
A special child being spirited away to be raised in secret is an oddly common mythological story. Moses and the Skywalkers spring to mind. Did anyone catch her name? It sounded like Hera to me. Somewhat of a blasphanous name from the Cylons' point of view.
Anyone else spot the Bladerunner reference? "Skin -jobs". Something about the bit with Harvey Baltar just screamed Phillip.K.Dick to me, not sure why exactly, it's not like anyone was doing any serious hallusiagins or fantasising about a young teenage girl or anything like that. Perhaps it was the questioning of one's personal reality angle, both with Sharon-1 and Caprica-6.
I like how it looks like the Cylons are about to experiance their first schism. It's to be expected, I mean they're a very young culture (about a century if I recall) and have just pulled off a revolution, banished their former oppressors, historically speaking civil war is usually the next step. If it goes that far we've yet to see, but given this show's history of blurring the lines, sticking to the grey areas and constantly mixing it up I wouldn't be surprised if eventually the ongoing war will be fought with cylons and humans on both sides, but like everything else about this show, I wouldn't put money on it.
Finally; I don't know about anyone else but I'm really starting to love Dr. Cottle's character. It's like watching DeForest Kelley with a permanent hang over. Also, in a weird way he looks vaguely like Lorne Greene...not sure why that occurs to me.
quote:Originally posted by Mars Needs Women: You know that's really sick that they would use a real dead baby to fool someone.
Anyways, I notice that the human-like cyclons seem to have much more freedom to do nothing while the mechanical cyclons look like they're stuck doing manual labor and other jobs.
Ever heard of Operation Mincemeat? Admittedly this is slightly different but the use of dead bodies in wartime deception is nothing new. In fact they used one of Sharon's just a few weeks ago for just that.
As for the Centurions, I imagine they're only programmed in a similar fashion as the Raiders. That is more like trained animals. There's probably a reason that they aren't allowed to "live" as the Skin-jobs are. Presumably the original self-aware Cylons that rebeled dited the tin suits in favour of the 12 human models for a reason and they wouldn't want to confine a sentient Cylon mind to such a limited shell.
"Though I'm somewhat annoyed that out of ALL the Cylons we saw, it was apparently nothing by Six-es, Eights, Fives, and Threes, with one Rick Worthy look-alike shot from the rear so they wouldn't have to pay the actor."
When Resistance Redhead is watching Three and Six through her binoculars, a guy walks by who looked like he had lighter hair than Five. I assumed he was meant to be that other male Cylon, Leoben.
"Surprise adoption -- did anyone else see this coming a mile away? As soon as Cottle got that list from the female Billy."
I agree with Lee. I thought they were talking about adoption from the very beginning of that scene. It never even occured to me that they might be trying to suggest anything different.
"Okay, I do have a problem with the timeline. In Epiphanies, we learn that it's been six months since Roslin was diagnosed with cancer. Roslin was diagnosed in the miniseries. So, we know that at the thirteenth episode of the second season, six months had passed since the Cylon attack.
"At the start of this episode, we learn that nine months has passed since the Cylon attack. Hence, this episode takes place three months after Epiphanies. However, when Sharon Mk. 1 is resurrected into a new body, the 'resurrection' sequence is titled 'Ten Weeks Ago' ... ten weeks is two and a half months, which means Sharon Mk. 1 would've been killed after Epiphanies. In fact, she was killed nine episodes prior, in Resistance."
Chronologically, Sharon's death ≠ Sharon's resurrection. Remember that, at the end, they say it will be at least 36 hours before Three gets resurrected, because of all the other dead to be dealt with. Who knows how long they may have waited with Sharon? (Well, two weeks, apparently, if your numbers are correct.)
"...what's she called? Hara?..."
Given the whole "Greek deity" thing they've got going on in their religion, I think "Hera" seems more likely.
Registered: Mar 1999
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Blasted computer crashed on me after I had this all typed... Nuts!
I questioned the timeline too. I'd like to sit down now and review all the episodes to date to see if they would fit within the nine month timeframe this episode mentioned. It sounds like it does.
I personally don't have a problem with that missing 2 weeks in Sharon MkI's resurrection timeframe. We humans have a tendency to round up when we're discussing the past. If something happened back in the middle of Dec., for example, we might say three months ago instead of two and a half. Or it took them two weeks to get around to bringing her back. Either works.
These resurrections, and the bombing on Caprica do raise the question about the Resurrection Ship, though. Was the Ship only responsible for Cylons near the RTF? Can Cylons killed on Caprica still be resurrected? It appears that way.
I've been thinking all along that there were at least two factions within the Cylon community. The militant majority who wanted to wipe out Humanity and launched the attack on the Colonies, and a touchy-feely minority that would rather make love, not war. Last season there was an episode with Sharon MkII on Caprica with Helo. Sharon was being observed by a Six and a Doral Five. Doral was pointing out that this particular Six was jealous of Sharon MkII and her growing affection for Helo.
It appears from the way Caprica-Six and Sharon MkI were treated as war heroes and celebrities that the Cylons can make individual distinctions between different Cylons of the same model. How do they do that? With all of the units in the same model looking the same, there must be some other way they can pick up on individuals.
Yes, I thought it was an adoption list, too. However, I would wonder how well they could be trusted. Female Billy said they could be trusted, but how does she know? How do they know that someone on that list isn't a Cylon? Those would be my concerns.
My step-son asked if the adoptive woman killed her own baby...
It's finally clear from this episode that Baltar his human. Why go through the effort of seducing and deceiving a fellow Cylon when he could provide the codes himself?
However, is Harvey-Six a chip in his head or a delusion of his own? For that matter, is Harvey-Baltar a chip in her head or a delusion?
I don't think Starbuck's forgotten all about Anders. Wasn't she just thinking/dreaming about him two episodes ago? Helo even told her she has something to live for now when they were discussing him. And Anders still wears her dogtag, so he's thinking of her.
Apparently what is known by one Cylon isn't known by the collective as a whole. There is a real Six in the Fleet now and there was another one earlier. Both know Baltar is alive. Yet Caprica-Six didn't know until Sharon told her.
I've been thinking all along the Cylon God is the NuBSG version of the Imperious Leader.
I thought the baby's name was Tera or Terra. Hera works too. So, will we see the survivor number go up now?
Registered: Feb 2004
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quote: Chronologically, Sharon's death ≠ Sharon's resurrection. Remember that, at the end, they say it will be at least 36 hours before Three gets resurrected, because of all the other dead to be dealt with. Who knows how long they may have waited with Sharon? (Well, two weeks, apparently, if your numbers are correct.)
Well, if my numbers are correct, she was resurrected two weeks after Epiphanies -- not two weeks after she was killed.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
). But I can't fault the show too much, considering that the limitation of only twelve models of Humanoid Cylon is something that can/should be maintained. And I have a feeling that it could be justified by the plot.
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