posted
First and foremost Zarek is an idealist and very big on the rights of the people and and quite against thos nasty big cogs of government that the Chief was ranting about, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's involved with the worker's strike after Baltar got shot of him. On the other hand there is a certain appeal at seeing a character that once-upon-a-time would have been on that picket line, find himself incharge of breaking a strike. MMMMmmmmm pathos...
quote:It's just that I liked Tyrol's seemingly paternal attitude towards Cally, and now that they are an item it feels weird, to me.
She's pregnant, and they seem to work together, but did we get any evidence that they're an item? I mean, it's a reasonable assumption, but I'm curious if I missed something.
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WizArtist II
"How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock? "
Member # 1425
posted
Ok,just activate the Omega 13 device 2,425,847 times and reset the entire previous year.
I see Peggy buying it in the Evac attempt in the next season premiere.
-------------------- There are 10 types of people in the world...those that understand Binary and those that don't.
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WizArtist II
"How can you have a yellow alert in Spacedock? "
Member # 1425
posted
quote:Originally posted by OnToMars: Where's Zarek?
Probably printing and selling "Don't blame me, I voted for Roslyn" & "Impeach Baltar NOW" bumper stickers.
-------------------- There are 10 types of people in the world...those that understand Binary and those that don't.
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Zarek's an opportunist who only wants to advance his own agenda. He's interested in rule or ruin, not what is truly best for the people.
He'll be heading the resistance on New Caprica.
Does Anders know what all the Cylon models look like? Apparently not, since he missed the priest. Wonder how many models he does know/recognizes. He'd recognize Xena.
Does anyone suspect that after the New Caprica arc is finished we'll see everyone back in the RTF and things will be like they were before the arc began. Reset button after all, with maybe a few minor difference.
I hope that doesn't happen.
The article linked to from the other thread asked if we'd see Baltar sitting in the big chair commanding his chrome friends. That'd be an interesting concept. I don't see Baltar being able to return to the Fleet unless he really charms his way in. How did the French populace treat the government that sided with Hitler?
It'd be interesting to see Baltar join the Cylons and pursue the RTF. At least this Baltar would have more of his "needs" taken care of. I swear the original Baltar had to be impotent or something to lose the desire for any contact with any humans.
OK, not that he lost the desire... He just seemed very much at home being the only human on an entire base star.
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posted
So we the viewers have a bad view of Baltar because we know what he's done, but why does his surrender to the Cylons mean that he can never be part of the human community again? They're vastly outgunned, what with the entire Colonial military running away. Assuming we agree with the Roslin Doctrine, the president's primary duty is ensuring the long term survival of the species. Everyone knows the Cylons have no compunction against genocide, historically speaking. So what exactly is he supposed to do in that situation?
What I'd like to see, and think we might see, maybe, is an interesting reverse for Baltar. In the past, humans thought Baltar was OK while he was in fact working purely for his own ends. So maybe now he'll find himself genuinely trying (or at least occasionally trying) to keep everyone alive while being despised.
As far as Tyrol and Cally, it's an interesting point, because I was sure there was some mention of something, but in retrospect it may just have been, you know, an inference derived from an intentionally misleading juxtaposition.
Also I'm not sure how "idealistic" Zarek is. Partly because it was never exactly revealed what those ideals were; is/was he a leftist? a nationalist?; and partly because I would expect that, like many people, his fervent Whateverism was the product of youth, since tempered by reality.
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quote:Following the Allied invasions of France, P�tain and his ministers were taken to Germany by the German forces where they established a government in exile at Sigmaringen.
In 1945, many members of the Vichy government were arrested and charged with high treason and other crimes. Trials ensued and some, including Laval and Darnand, were executed. P�tain was sentenced to death but the sentence was commuted to life imprisonment due to his achievements during World War I. Others fled or went into hiding, such as Jacques de Bernonville who went to Qu�bec, while some were not prosecuted for their crimes until much later, or not at all. In 1993, former Vichy official Ren� Bousquet was murdered while he awaited prosecution in Paris following a 1989 complaint for crimes against humanity; he had been prosecuted after the war, but had been acquitted in 1949. In 1994 former Vichy official Paul Touvier was convicted of crimes against humanity.
The official point of view of the French government is that the Vichy regime was an illegal government distinct from the French Republic, established by traitors under foreign influence. Indeed, Vichy France eschewed the formal name of France ("French Republic") and styled itself the "French State". While the criminal behavior of Vichy France is acknowledged, and some former Vichy officials prosecuted, this point of view denies any responsibility of the French Republic. However, on July 16, 1995, president Jacques Chirac, in a speech, recognized the responsibility of the French State for seconding the "criminal folly of the occupying country".
That was just the Government. Collaborators with the German occupiers, well, the lucky ones got their heads shaved, paraded through the streets, tarred and feathered, that sort of thing. The unlucky ones got dead.
Baltar's behaviour looks to me to be more figurehead-like. He looks sidelined, allowed to languish on Colonial One with a constant stream of lithesome lovelies on tap, while Zarek actually ruins the planet. The kind of revolutionary we assume Zarek was would profess to hold the kind of socialist tendencies that would keep people living in tent cities, when really it's a case of four legs good, Tom Zarek better.
posted
I don't think Vichy France is quite the right model, though. It depends on what kind of force the Cylons are able to bring to the planet. How much does it cost to build a Centurion, anyway? If we assume they've got lots and lots of them available, then instead of France you've got something, at the risk of putting way too much weight on our goofy action adventure show, more Eastern Front.
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quote:Originally posted by Sol System: So we the viewers have a bad view of Baltar because we know what he's done, but why does his surrender to the Cylons mean that he can never be part of the human community again? They're vastly outgunned, what with the entire Colonial military running away. Assuming we agree with the Roslin Doctrine, the president's primary duty is ensuring the long term survival of the species. Everyone knows the Cylons have no compunction against genocide, historically speaking. So what exactly is he supposed to do in that situation?
As noted in the subsequent posts, people don't like collaborators. Many of the people who collaborated with (or were solders for) the Nazis claimed they were only doing it because they had no choice, were just following orders, etc... Still, many of the victims/survivors have difficulty buying that.
The episode ended with the Cylons standing in front of Baltar on Colonial One. We don't know or haven't seen the extent of Baltar's subsequent collaborations. I'm just speculating based on what we know about Baltar's past and his personality. He'll do what is best for himself.
If he's seen being all cozy with the Cylons while others (like Zarek, Starbuck, etc...) are formulating a resistance, then it won't look good. The populace aren't liking him already and siding with the Cylons will only make matters worse.
No, he's not done anything yet. But I suspect the beginning of Season 3 will paint a better picture.
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quote:So we the viewers have a bad view of Baltar because we know what he's done, but why does his surrender to the Cylons mean that he can never be part of the human community again?
The direct answer to this question is his surrender should not bar him from the human community.
It's going to be his actions afterword that will do it.
I'm speculating. Predicting. Judging what Baltar will or might do.
I imagine his character will become a puppet for the Cylons. He'll be used in some administrative capacity as a go-between or liasion between humans and Cylons.
He'll enjoy his position and use it to the full to benefit himself.
Maybe he will even go so far as to try to convince the rest of the humans that living under Cylon rule is not a bad thing. The Cylons are our friends. They only want what is best for Humanity.
And, when Humans ultimately triumph over the Cylons and drive them away or successfully flee, Baltar will change hise tune and say "I was just following orders. I didn't mean what I said. I hate the Cylons."
And for this reason he will be barred from the human community. Because humans don't like traitors or collaborators and Baltar will be seen as a collaborator.
quote:So what exactly is he supposed to do in that situation?
Surrender is the only option available to Baltar. It's his actions afterword that will determine his fate.
If he doesn't want to be branded a traitor or collaborator, Baltar should step down as President. He should refuse any office of oversight or go-between. He should not work toward the Cylon goal. He should not promote the Cylon government as the only viable option for the people.
He should do nothing that could appear to be offering aid to the enemy.
He should retire. Passive resistance at most. Step down and fade into the background at the least.
Again, to answer your questions 1. It's not his surrernder that will be his legacy, it's his actions after the surrender. If he works with the Cylons, he will be branded as a traiter and would be shunned by humanity. and 2. Surrender was his only choice at the time. The next decision he should make that will keep him on the side of humanity is to resign his post.
But I don't see that happening.
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Dee. The Billy partisans were against her, on account of Apollo. But look, I said, it's been a month between episodes, and the whole world(s) has(have) ended; who among us is immune to the hasty grief-ridden hookup?
But with the attempted election-theft, I am completely off her, despite her pretty new hair. Roslin ultimately decided not to do it, so she is OK. Tigh is already untrustworthy and bad, we know. The new, female Billy, well, she's an unknown quantity. But Dualla. . . I am disappointed with her. I hope Gaeta isn't her friend anymore. (Not that he knows, necessarily.)
Baltar, to hallucinatory Six: "I'm not the man you think I am." (Or was that to Gina? Anyway, he is complicated and I think his actions next season will prove surprising, one way or the other. I am not at all excited about the scenerio that has him joining up with the Cylons and playing the OG Baltar role.)
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