posted
Okay, all. Here's the latest version of my starship list, current up through ENT "Silent Enemy". When I asked for tearing and shredding the LAST time, I really didn't get much. Maybe that just means I've got a pretty accurate list. Or, maybe it means you guys are getting too lazy to nitpick. Either way, here you are:
Couple things, though. First, I don't want to hear any gripes about the Valiant. Secondly, I for some reason assigned the registry of the unknown Galaxy from the DS9 Calendar to the U.S.S. Magellan, I guess just because it was the only other Galaxy with no known number. It's probably a mistake, and I'll be changing it. Thirdly, please no speeches about the Trinculo or the Valkyrie.
Otherwise, it's open season.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
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posted
The ENT doesn't have an "SS" prefix, or an unknown one. It doesn't have one at all, from what we've seen.
And shouldn't it be listed under the pre-Federation ships? It doesn't belong to the Federation Starfleet. And, if "Starfleet" refers to anything at all my that name, you have no reason to assume there aren't other ships on the list that belong to one Starfleet or another.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
IIRC, the related copyright registered by Paramount was "S.S. Enterprise". I think people can back me on this one, because I raised this particular question some months ago in order to clarify. I'll do some digging into the old threads and see if I can find the discussion.
And I think it's pretty obvious that the "Starfleet" we're seeing on ENT is merely the same organization we've always known, but in it's earliest stages of existence.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
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posted
Nope, Berman stated in one of the earlier interviews that it was just Enterprise, no SS.
-------------------- "I was surprised by the matter-of-factness of Kafka's narration, and the subtle humor present as a result." (Sizer 2005)
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capped
I WAS IN THE FUTURE, IT WAS TOO LATE TO RSVP
Member # 709
posted
Apples and Oranges. nah, new government means new military services.. the Starfleet of Earth may have been absorbed by the creation of the Federation Starfleet, but the registries should start over since its a different affiliation.
-------------------- "Are you worried that your thoughts are not quite.. clear?"
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Forgive me in advance, MMoM, if I nitpick too much, but here are my observations in alphabetical order:
USS Ahwahnee . . . where do we have a registry number for the ship in "Redemption"? I saw no Cheyennes in Picard's fleet, and cannot fathom how a lower registry number could come from a replacement starship.
USS Alka-Selsior . . . ugh. I would say that we should really not let in-jokes count for anything, but, on the other hand, this would serve to make the point that the ships lost at Wolf 359 were not left there. Obviously, they were salvaged, or left to rot at Qualor II.
USS Carolina, NCC-160 . . . where does the registry come from, and the class? That would put a Daedalus in operation some 70 years after the class was retired, and short of some sort of replication of the Bozeman experience, I don't see how that could be possible.
USS Centaur . . . though it used many Excelsior components, it was not an Excelsior any more than Reliant was a Constitution Class ship.
USS Concorde . . . where is it mentioned or referred to in "All Good Things"?
USS Constellation, NCC-1974 . . . would it not be prudent to assume that the Constellation from DS9 was not NCC-1974? Taking the example of the retired Hathaway (NCC-2593), I'd assume that the far older class-ship would have been retired. The only definitely known operational Constellation Class Starship was the Victory, which with a registry in the 9000 range, would put her as being far younger than the class ship, not much older than the Ambassador.
USS Dauntless . . . why is she included, since she was an alien construct? Granted, that was a kickass alien construct, and I'd love to see that design actually used down the road, but still . . .
USS Drake, Andromeda Class . . . what's an Andromeda?
USS Gettysburg, NCC-3890 . . . did we see her in DS9, or was she only mentioned? If only mentioned, I'd assume, as with the Constellation, that the old ship had been retired.
USS Hathaway . . . when/how was she mentioned/seen in "Redemption"?
USS Intrepid, NCC-38907 . . . what was Geordi doing trying to beat out a far older starship in engine efficiency experiments? I assumed the Intrepid mentioned was another Galaxy Class.
USS Magellan, Constellation Class . . . where does this come from in the episode?
USS Melbourne . . . since we actually see her clearly in Emissary as an Excelsior, would this not then be the "reality" of the thing?
USS Merrimack . . . the correct spelling is "Merrimac".
USS Spector . . . should that be "Spectre"?
USS Valiant, NCC-20000 . . . an Oberth Class Valiant? No way, dude. That is so wrong! "Let us bravely go study some big space fart or other gaseous anomaly!" :-)
USS Voyager . . . Intrepid/Constitution variant . . . methinks we could safely ignore this one, or say it was some alien name like "Vovager" or something. I'm very much against starships of the same name serving simultaneously, especially when the registry would indicate that they were built around the same time.
USS Yorktown, NCC-1717 . . . why the assumption that this is not the same ship as in "Flashback"[VGR]?
Unnamed NCC-4000 . . . where does this registry come from? It's way out of time-synch.
Well, that's about it for now.
Guardian 2000
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
"USS Ahwahnee . . . where do we have a registry number for the ship in 'Redemption'?"
Tachyon detection grid Okudagram. It's featured in the Encyclopedia-2.
"USS Carolina, NCC-160 . . . where does the registry come from, and the class?"
Encyclopedia-2.
"USS Concorde . . . where is it mentioned or referred to in 'All Good Things'?"
It was sent to the Romulan Neutral Zone during the "present".
"USS Drake, Andromeda Class . . . what's an Andromeda?"
The class of the USS Drake (and the USS Prokofiev, for that matter), according to the Encyclopedia-2.
"USS Hathaway . . . when/how was she mentioned/seen in 'Redemption'?"
Most likely an assumption that the model was not relabelled between "Peak Performance" and "Redemption".
"USS Magellan, Constellation Class . . . where does this come from in the episode?"
I don't think it is. But it's in the Encylcopedia-2.
"USS Valiant, NCC-20000 . . . an Oberth Class Valiant? No way, dude. That is so wrong!"
Perhaps. But, if that's how the model was labelled, what are you going to do about it?
"USS Yorktown, NCC-1717 . . . why the assumption that this is not the same ship as in 'Flashback'[VGR]?"
I really do suggest getting yourself a copy of the Encyclopedia-2 (actually, the 2.5 would be more useful now, I guess). Although, in this instance, I admit that its assumption seems to have no real basis.
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posted
Or have him actually read some of the other posts here. Guardian2k, almost all of your questions can be answered in either the Encyclopedia, the show, the movies, or right here at Flare. And needless to say, Mighty Monkey of Mim's information is pretty much correct.
However, I agree with you on one stance: I also don't believe that the Constellation which visited DS9 was the original class ship. Nor do I think that the Excelsior mentioned in TNG was the class ship. I think both ships were newer. I have my reasons.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
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"USS Carolina, NCC-160 . . . where does the registry come from, and the class?"
Encyclopedia-2.
That is in direct contradiction to the statement on TNG that such a ship hasn't been in service for 172 years.
quote:
"USS Magellan, Constellation Class . . . where does this come from in the episode?"
I don't think it is. But it's in the Encylcopedia-2.
So, in other words, they just sorta made it up. I'd accept the notion that there was an inactive/mothballed starship of that class and registry, but, as I find the notion of multiple starships of the same name operating simultaneously disturbing, and since there was a Galaxy Class Magellan apparently in operation during that time (presumption based on registry), I'd be led to discount this ship.
quote:
"USS Valiant, NCC-20000 . . . an Oberth Class Valiant? No way, dude. That is so wrong!"
Perhaps. But, if that's how the model was labelled, what are you going to do about it?
Bitching, followed shortly thereafter by moaning, culminating in choosing to ignore it. :-)
quote:
"USS Yorktown, NCC-1717 . . . why the assumption that this is not the same ship as in 'Flashback'[VGR]?"
I really do suggest getting yourself a copy of the Encyclopedia-2 (actually, the 2.5 would be more useful now, I guess). Although, in this instance, I admit that its assumption seems to have no real basis.
Well, ever since the DS9 Technical Manual, I've been rather slow to go grab the latest Trek reference for sale. But, I'll bite the bullet.
However, I'm of the opinion that where something in the E-2 is contradictory or contrary to the facts from the show, or even the reasonable suppositions therefrom, it can be ignored. This rule was established after I read the DS9 Tech Manual . . . ugh.
G2k
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
quote:Originally posted by Dukhat: Or have him actually read some of the other posts here. Guardian2k, almost all of your questions can be answered in either the Encyclopedia, the show, the movies, or right here at Flare.
There comes a point at which one expects too much of a newcomer. Though I've been reading the posts for a couple of months, and have perused posts going back even further, I never saw anything which suggested I had to go back and read every single post ever written. Sorry I missed that caveat.
As for the show and movies, there are things not noticed, even by someone watching closely, unless someone else has noticed it. I've been on both sides of that. Further, disagreement can exist on just what some seldom-noticed thing is. I was asking for the "where" in the episode, and for the "why" behind it.
Further, neither Deep Space Nine nor Voyager were available in this area after the fourth season of the former, and the second of the latter, roughly. Some of my questions, therefore, are based on a TNG-centric view of the Trek cosmos of the 24th Century, and things which are clearly weird from that viewpoint will come under scrutiny. However, as obviated in the responses, some of the things I asked about were strictly from the Encyclopedia-2, nowhere to be found in the episode of DS9 or Voyager.
quote:However, I agree with you on one stance: I also don't believe that the Constellation which visited DS9 was the original class ship. Nor do I think that the Excelsior mentioned in TNG was the class ship. I think both ships were newer. I have my reasons.
. . . and those reasons would be . . . ?
G2k
-------------------- . . . ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
posted
Ahhhhhhh....this is how Flare should be. Good ol' Encyclopedia-era ship discussions! Now, where shall we begin? Answering Red Admiral's questions:
quote: Monkey, where'd you get the name 'USS Bonchune' from Message in a Bottle? Is there a reference I've missed?
I believe the name was written on the Nebula class ship in the episode. It's confirmed. It's the name of a modeler, I believe.
quote: What canon info is there on a 'Hermes Class'?
I'm not sure how to explain that, although I know the Hermes was seen on a computer display in ST II. This, along with the Saladin, which might be Hermes class.
quote: Can we have more info on the Steamrunner class 'USS Hiroshima'.
This ship was seen in the back of Encyclopedia 2, in the ship chart section. The Steamrunner was labeled 'USS Hiroshima,' but it was not listed anywhere else in the book. In fact, in Encyc 2.5, the Steamrunner back there was renamed 'USS Appalachia.'
quote: USS Madison from ST: First Contact. I was under the impression this was called the USS Manson.
It's hard to tell whether it's "Manson" or "Madison," but I like "Manson."
quote: USS Nash, where's this written/mentioned?
It's supposedly the Sysdney-class ship that is seen at DS9 a lot. I think it's written on the model, with the ridiculous registry NCC-2010-B. There's something on Bernd's site about it.
posted
Guardian: I never said that you had to read every post ever written. I just said that you'd be able to find your answers here. And as far as the little things in movies & shows being noticed, again Flare is the best place to find out about them. Much of the information on my shiplist wouldn't have been there if I hadn't found the info from another forumite.
But, alas, you are correct. I wasn't aware that you didn't have the reference sources which most of us have had for years, so I'm sorry if my response was a little abrupt. And as far as my reasoning goes for the Constellation and Excelsior, it's pretty much what you stated. These class ships are almost a century old. I understand that there's no canon facts with starship lifespans, but common sense dictates that these two ships are no longer in service. Technological upgrades, retirements, wars, age, speed of production for new ships, etc. all are factors. Geordi stated that the Excelsior class ships had older warp cores or something, and the fect of the Hathaway's retirement, are other factors.
-------------------- "A film made in 2008 isn't going to look like a TV series from 1966 if it wants to make any money. As long as the characters act the same way, and the spirit of the story remains the same then it's "real" Star Trek. Everything else is window dressing." -StCoop
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