There has been a lot of disturbing things happening in America, and the search is out for the Scapegoat. That search is what is prompting me to rant. Children are shooting children in schools; who's to blame for this? Guns. Two people go on a crime spree, robbing and killing a clerk; who's to blame for this? The media. Guns? Media? How about the individual is to blame. This American society is failing because people don't want to take responcibilty for their actions, or the actions of those that they are responcible for. If your child is getting into crime it is not the availability of guns, messages of violence in the media, or a preceived dark and sinister way they dress, its bad parenting. What we need to see happening is not a mother and father joining a picket line to call for tougher gun laws, but for them to admit some degree of fault in rearing their child. If you can't teach your child basic decent values and morals, there are parenting classes available. A gun can't talk. A gun doesn't whipser, "use me" to people. A gun is a tool, and like all tools it can be used or abused. And if it is abused, citizens shouldn't have to pay the cost, but the abuser should. Guns can't be at fault because someone used them to commit murder, no more than knives can be at fault, or ball peen hammers. Gun laws can't be at fault either. No matter how tough a gun law is, criminals will still get them. (The issue today is that some of the new laws have a loophole in getting guns at pawn shops. Then make it illegal to pawn guns. The guns are either returned to the owners through the proper exchange, or confiscated by law enforcement.) When a person makes a decision to break the law -- in this case premeditates murder -- what allows them to make that decision are their values. If they are taught not to value human life, then they are a danger to society, and killing will be easy for them to accomplish. If they also know that taking lives is wrong and they choose to ignore that knowledge, then the blame for any crime commited by them can only be placed on themselves, with some of the fault extending towards those persons responcible for their upbringing.
The poor media. Oliver Stone faces being sued because alledgedly his movie "Natural Born Killers" (one of my favorites) inspired two people to adventure into a crime spree. Of course there are more Media Scapegoats out there to join Mr. Stone. Marilyn Manson had the finger pointed at him for actrosities at Columbine High, Ozzy Osbourne was sued because a teen killed himself appareantly after listing to Ozzy's "Suicide Solution" -- a song about alcoholism! And Judias Priest was also sued for a suicide. What kind of sick parent holds faith that a rock album or song is more influental than that parent? "I can't deal with the fact that I have failed as a parent, so I'm going to blame a source external to the family." And what about the violence? "There's too much violence on tv! There's too much violence in video games!" TV, movies, music videos, and games are to a degree, fiction. Through them we get to "act" out violence without actually having to go through the trouble of acting violent and paying the price for it. When movie and tv producers are forced to compensate for lives lost because of external inspiration, where will it end? There are some pretty violent book out there, the Bible being one of them. And violent nursery rythms. Little Red Riding Hood's grandmother is eaten by a wolf, knowledge that doesn't appear to bother of the little girl one bit, and the wolf is then killed by a woodsman with an axe. Gore galore. Hansel and Gretel is a wonderful tale chock full of child abuse, neglect, and abandonment, with indication of potential cannibalism. Lovely tale. Be sure to read it to your children. It's no worse than a modern day story, say like "A Nightmare on Elmstreet." Artists can't be blamed because there work is potentialy dangerous. It is impossible to remove all potentially dangerous influences and enviroments. The world is full of them, both natural and man-made. To protect a child from these dangers, only endangers the child because the child is not taught how to deal with them. Children must learn that dangers are present everyday. The must learn how to cope with danger. They must learn what is right and what is wrong. They must learn that life, all life not just human life, is valuable. They must learn to say, "It's MY fault," when they make a mistake. We all must learn to say "it's MY fault," when we make a mistake, and stop looking towards other people, institutions, agencies, or inanimate objects to take the blame.
------------------ Think of it this way, at least we will be in prison together. Tom to B'Lanna, upon reaching Earth and and being arrested by Tuvok.
Yeah, if I ever go berserk and waste a bunch of people, I'm gonna make sure I leave my Bible open on my desk with the nice genocidal bits of Joshua and such highlighted with neon yellow.
That should shake things up a bit. *evil smirk*
(Of course, I won't ever go berserk that way. I'm not that type. I internalize my anger and get ulcers, instead.)
------------------ You're just JEALOUS because the little voices talk to ME!
posted
Cargile, you are so correct. I think its high time people started taking responsibility for their actions. The ideas of honor, respect and discipline are lost in this country.
On a similar note, the CEO of a Japanese bank who resigned during the crisis over there in Asia is now bussing tables at a local restaurant. He's had tons of offers to work elsewhere in businesses all over the place. He won't except them because of how he felt he failed in his duties as a bank CEO.
Now THAT is taking responsbility... Who in the U.S. would do such a thing?
------------------ "We are all a product of the environment we live in.... the rest, good or bad, may be free will." Charles C. Bohnam
[This message was edited by Jeff Raven on May 21, 1999.]
posted
I agree we are all responsible for our own actions, but we must not forget that we are also responsible for the actions of others. Not only the parents, but a lot of people failed in their responsibilities to those involved in the Littleton massacre.
IP: Logged
posted
Simon: I disagree. We may be responsible to, but never for others. The only person who's actions you can reliably control are yours. If you think otherwise you are deluded.
Let's suppose I'm responsible for your behavior? Where does my responsibility end? What actions must I take to prevent ill-advised actions on your part? Most importantly, how am I to know what you're thinking?
Fortunately, while I don't have these answers about you, I do have them for myself.
My responsibility begins and ends with my ability to control events. I own guns and have full control (therefore, responsibility) over where I point them and what I choose to put holes in. If I do not exercise this control, I am being irresponsible, but will still be held responsible for my actions.
The same thing holds true for speech, driving, and a variety of other activities where what I do or say can have a profound effect upon someone else's safety. (And if you don't think speech can be dangerous, you've never worked with someone on high-voltage circuitry.)
I agree with Cargile. The problems America is facing do not stem from guns, laws, or lack thereof, but from an inability to face the fact that actions have consequences and therefore, you are responsible for the consequences of your actions. The attitude of "I'm a victim" has been reinforced by lawsuits where people who did patently stupid things were awarded fabulous sums because they weren't warned by the producers of the equipment involved.
--Baloo
------------------ I prefer the company of those who aim low and overshoot the mark to those who aim at heaven and shoot their fellow man in the head. www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/8641/
[This message was edited by Baloo on May 23, 1999.]
If I were one of the people who teased and gave a hard time to the perpetrators of Littleton I would be partially responsible for what they did.
If one of my friends or family massacres a number of people I am responsible for it because I did not notice the signs of danger that must have been there.
I pay taxes that go to compensate wrongs my anscestors did to native peoples. I am responsible despite not being born when the events occured.
Humanity is made of more than individulas, it is made of groups and societies. Everyone is connected, and that is our greatest strength. But our innability to see just how closely we are connected to the past, to the future, and to each other is our greatest flaw.
------------------ Religions, which condemn the pleasures of sense, drive men to seek the pleasures of power. Throughout history power has been the vice of the ascetic. -Russell
Well I must disagree with you Baloo. If I were one of the people who teased and gave a hard time to the perpetrators of Littleton I would be partially responsible for what they did.
So I can't, for example, take the mic out of CC's beard, in case he goes nuts and kills people? Daft
If one of my friends or family massacres a number of people I am responsible for it because I did not notice the signs of danger that must have been there.
Friends, maybe. Family, definetly. Although it is not always the case, I bet the family just weren't paying attention.
I pay taxes that go to compensate wrongs my anscestors did to native peoples. I am responsible despite not being born when the events occured.
Ooh, no. We have to take responsibilty for stuff that we didn't do, and that happenned before we were born? Makes no sense. We can apologise for what our ancestors did, but individually taken responsibilty for it?
------------------ 'You want the moon on a stick, don't you?' -Richard Herring
Orion Syndicate
He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
Member # 25
posted
I agree that people need to take responsibility for their own actions, but what good is that going to do to the people who are hurt in the process, eg. if the killers at that school had killed the children and then handed themselves in, they would have been taking responsibility, but what good would that have done the families? They would still be without their loved ones. The whole thing needs to be controlled first, and then a drive to make people take responsibility.
------------------ The public is wonderfully tolerant - it forgives everything except Genius.
posted
According to the Atlanta Journal Constitution, the mother of a student shot in the knee is blaming none of the above. She is blaming Satan. Is this libelous? Will Morningstar sue? Could somebody please ask him - I suspect some of us have speed dial to his unlisted number.
------------------ "'I'm afraid there's nowhere for you to sit,' I said coldly; 'the verandah is full of goats.'" --Saki "The Guests"
posted
*sighs, rolls her eyes, and steps back up on her NAS soap box*
ALright--here's my bit. I'm majoring in anthropology, specifically, I wanted to study Native American Cultures. So, happily I signed up for NAS (native american studies) 150, expecting it would be about culture and such. W R O N G. The class was basically a poli-sci thing. all about the government and all this. SO many times, i sat in that room for 50 minutes, one of 4 or 5 white folks in a room of 20 Native people, and I felt like the readings and discussions were just yelling down at me "you BAD WHITE! you what you've done to our people!!" Now, looking back, i DID learn a lot from this class, but my response to the claim that I am in some part to blame is this: BULL SHIT. period. that's it. i do not consider myself responsible for things that my 'ancestors' may have done. especially considering my family wasn't even over here until about 200 years ago. and yet, we are to believe that because we are white americans, we are the ones responsible. no matter what our involvement is in the issue. this class has really educated me, and i can see the picture much more clearly now. granted, there ARE people out there who are still causing these problems. but i am not one of them. i have never been a racist, or prejudiced against people, thank God. And it really does hurt me when a stigma is attached to me because i'm white, in a native community. i have learned SO much about this going to university out in New Mexico. trust me.
take an example, though. 2000 years ago, during and before Christ's ministry, if a person was mute, deaf, lame, leprous, or had any other physical problem, then it was because they, or even more likely, their parents, had committed some sin that caused them to be born like that. these days we KNOW that's not the case. so if that wasn't true, why is THIS true? and it IS the same thing, if you think about it.
so who then should bear the responsibility of, for example, paying taxes for the benefit of things like the IHS--Indian Health Service? Americans, of course. But not because our grandparents are the ones who hurt them to begin with. rather, because we are a NATION. We share this continent, and if we want to survive, we have to pull together and play this game as a team. THAT is how i view all of this now. i do not feel a responsibility out of guilt, because I am not guilty of these crimes. My responsibility, and that of others, is still a moral one, but of a different note. we must help because help is needed, not because there is some obligation to be met.
*sighs and steps off soapbox*
------------------ Clones are People Two
"The Force is like duct tape: it has a dark side and a light side, and it holds the universe together" ([[[[[[*]}�������������������������
posted
*Applauds Jedi* Yes, exactly. WE are not responsible for the mistakes of our forefathers, even if we are stuck with their messes.
But before any of you start thinking this means I'm going to change my stance and start backing off about the Inquisition and Salem, I'm not.
Part of the responsibility that we DO have is to make sure that stuff like that and like what happened to the Native Americans NEVER HAPPENS HERE AGAIN.
Which means, that, despite our knowing that we're not to blame, the reminder that it DID happen must remain with us, until the barest possibility that it MIGHT happen again fades into the distant past. It hasn't yet.
------------------ You're just JEALOUS because the little voices talk to ME!
posted
If we don't have responsibility for those in the past then our civilization is lost. Societies last longer than their members, and all great crimes are done by the whole society. Thus everyone that supports and lives in a society should be willing to accept responsbility for the crimes of the past. We are just as responsible for the lives of our ancestors as we are those of our descendants.
First: Unfortunetly if its no ones responsibility to clean up a mess it doesn't get cleaned up.
------------------ Science has "explained" nothing; the more we know the more fantastic the world becomes and the profounder the surrounding darkness. -Huxley
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