quote:Originally posted by Lee: Very few of us now remain from the pre-Flare EnterForums, and the rest of you were all newbies at one time or other. You can't all have been bullied.
True, I was a newbie here once, about 7 years ago at which point so was most of everybody else. I only point out the 7 year thing cause it's hard to believe I've been here for that long.
-------------------- I'm slightly annoyed at Hobbes' rather rude decision to be much more attractive than me though. That's just rude. - PsyLiam, Oct 27, 2005.
Registered: May 1999
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quote:." As far as the "several layers of sarcasm and smart ass remarks" goes....every board has that. But here, it's more along the lines of "OH! You wish to join US?? How DARE you! You are a mere puny scrap of a person while WE are forum GODS!" FEH.
Bull. I see that kind of crap at TrekBBS and Hobbytalk (and so dont venture there), but, spammers aside, we've been very accepting of new members- particularly when they bring sopmething to the forums besides "LOOK AT MY WEBSITE!".
The closest I've seen (in a loong tome)to bashing was that Eggelton guy from this past week, but that was definitely spamming- when a newbie cant even introduce themselves, but just adds a quote from his own sirte and links, it's not likely to get agood reception anywhere. Imagine: "Hi, I heard you guys like Trek- Did you know that I sell Amway..."
I've not seen us be cold to anyone that joins and posts in a topic in progress or someone that shows off his/her creative talents in a topic in progress. But we're murder on bozos that post a "look at me" thread at every forum around to drive traffic to their site. Guys like Irishman (as example) are always welcomed because their work is stimulating and they're here to genuinely get feedback- not just to bask in praise.
Personally, I'd love to see more overseas members- Andrew, Masao, Bernd, Liam- go forth and stand on your local streetcorners yelling at traffic about how cool Flare is. Maybe hold up a cardboard sign with the address on it....
On a serious note, maybe someone here can make up an Official Invitation to Flare that can be downloaded and then sent, by us, to people we'd like to recruit? A nice LCARS display would be cool.. Yeah, an invitation is an elitest thing to do, but why not make candidates feel special?
Hmmmm...we DO need a bit more political diversity to shake up the Flameboard- the unending outrages of the Bush Administration are just not making the waves they used to.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Jason Abbadon: [QUOTE]. Personally, I'd love to see more overseas members- Andrew, Masao, Bernd, Liam- go forth and stand on your local streetcorners yelling at traffic about how cool Flare is. Maybe hold up a cardboard sign with the address on it....
Hmmm, I wonder where Darius and Dax have gone??
-------------------- "Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica." - Jim Halpert. (The Office)
posted
Wow, I've heard my name mentioned in a positive light more in this thread than at any other time on Flare. I even got kudos from people that I didn't know that that highly of me.
Thanks a bunch.
So, we're talking about changes? What's working and what's not working about Flare? What should stay and what should go? I still consider myself a newbie here, so I am a bit hesitant to offer my opinions...
..okay, hesitancy over. )
Well, when I first signed up at Flare, I did it despite the name ("Flare" sounded, and still sounds, a might gayish). I did it because great 2D artists like Masao, Bernd, Reverend, and Harry posted their artwork here, and I thought it would be a great learning experience for me.
I found the wealth of information from past threads, debates, stories, and speculation, great fun, and spent the better part of a year absorbing all that old stuff.
After a while though, the frequency of posts began to slow, to the point now where I will go days between checking for new posts here. And I belong to many other scifi/Trek themed BBSs - Trek BBS, Scifi-meshes, Federationreference (as of last week), Jose Ralat's LCARS site, and HobbyTalk.
Flare is losing its dyamism. Very rarely does something happen here that draws my attention, as opposed to TBBS, where there's ALWAYS someone posting something of interest. Plus, TBBS has the added advantage of members like Mike Okuda and Rick Sternbach. I'm not sure how many of the members know this, but for those of us who frequent the Art forum and Trek tech forum know it. And even when I was a newbie I never felt unwelcome at TBBS, for the record.
I also rarely go to hobbytalk. In fact, I only went there when I heard that Robert Bonchune was posting art and mesh orthos from "Enterprise" there. Model building just isn't my thang.
The good news is that Flare is open to change. It's done it before, adding forae, dropping forae, etc.
So I guess the questions become what is good change and what is bad change?
Here's a list that will probably develop as I think about it more. Most of my replies will be limited to Trek because that is what I primarily delve into here.
1. Make Flare a destination for fans. Make it a resource. How? Post episode guides (read synopses) of Trek shows akin to those at federationreference.com. Give exhaustive information regarding stardates, technical facts and historical information for each episode. Have those members who have access to episodes invest that into the site. It will show. It will draw people.
2. Build an art gallery (with member permission) with sub-boards for 2D and 3D art. It will give this material a sense of permanence, and it will prevent members from having to clumsily search (as I did) through threads looking for that one shot of the Binford Space Station to complete their collection. Showcase the creations of your members and show you're proud of them. Artists love that recognition, Give it to them and they will come.
3. Reduce the number of posts members have to make before they can use Flare Upload. TBBS only requires 50. 200 is insane. It took me FOREVER to reach it, because I don't make pointless posts. Make it more accessible or ditch it altogether. It's not the Holy Grail.
4. I personally don't care where members come from. If you treat members from "overseas" differently, they'll feel like that "black friend" some guy made just to prove he's not racist.
5. Give moderators the ability to delete spam ASAP. Spam shouldn't be a big deal. Delete it and it's threads and move on. It's distracting and pointless. As little energy as possible should go into reacting to it, but it should be done swiftly.
6. When I've referred people to Flare, it's been because there was something cool on the site. Don't extend invitations to people who aren't members, while keeping the site the same. They'll come and wonder "why is this site such a big deal?" If you make the site a big deal, word of mouth will FILL the member rolls.
7. People aren't going to come to Flare because of the flameboard. Period. Changing the flameboard will not even be a SMALL part of what makes Flare turn around. I do not come here for political outrage. That sort ofthing turns me off on a sci-fi forum. I know I'm not alone.
8. Make the forum titles and purposes more specific and focused. Example:
If your main focus is Star Trek, let that be the first main category of forae, and under it:
General Trek The Original Series TNG DS9 VOY ENT Movies Starships and Technology Artwork and Creativity
Then have your other sci-fi TV/movies forae be like:
Star Wars Stargate Farscape Doctor Who Battlestar Galactica (or whatever shows most make sense) Other
(But let Flare Upload work in ANY forum, not just artwork or Starships and Technology. Those other folks don't want or need to be left out.)
This forum list is not intended to be exhaustive, it's just from my perspective.
Some thing Flare does right?
1. It loads fast 2. Its recent post feature on the home page is awesome. Other sites could take a cue from that. NEVER drop that. 3. Its interface is simple. 4. It's stable. 5. Its search feature actually works!
Anyway. those are my ideas.
-------------------- This is just fun...it's not life...keep this in mind and we'll all enjoy it much more
Registered: Dec 2003
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
Member # 256
posted
To be blunt, if this "longtime member" doesn't even have the guts to name these people in Flare's supposed newbie-deathsquad or come forward himself with concrete examples of true unjustified bullying towards new members [and by "members" I mean those members who actually contributed something of interest (like the oft-mentioned Irishman) and whose first, second, and third posts weren't 1) promotion of some website slash product slash conspiracy theory slash whatever or 2) written by someone still in kindergarten], then I have to question how serious the problem you're perceiving here really is.
Furthermore, the reason Flare attracts very few new peeps is because it is small, and the reason it's small is because it isn't well-known due to having sat far outside the usual online sci-fi circles for seven years, not because it has a preceeding omnipresent reputation of being elitist. You want to discuss Heinlein? Then start a damn thread about him instead of going the lone IM route with one or two of your contacts. You might not get much feedback from the regulars, but at least it adds activity to the board you say you care about which could also just be enough to lure any new lurkers out of their shell and begin posting.
As for the fact that you feel you can't introduce your friends to this place because of some indiscriminate filter you think exists to purposely generate an air of collective hostility and drive them away... how about you let them decide for themselves whether the atmosphere is breathable or toxic? I get the impression you want to protect your own ass from any possible resentment for associating yourself with a bunch of "forum GODS" (your words, not mine) more than you want to save them from a potential bad experience, when in reality (assuming they're not spamming retards and have a decent command of English) I don't see why they wouldn't be welcomed exactly the same way you and I were, by people without a god- or any other form of superiority-complex (well, except Tim). You say there's no point, I say you're overreacting to a problem that in large part has nothing to do with your grievances AT ALL. The elite selection thing maybe needs to be reigned in here and there, but it's not the cause of Flare's stagnation and you know it.
Registered: Nov 1999
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I've been a member for quite a while now (and had no problems when a newbie btw) and I've gone from being a fairly regular poster to an occasional one. In part that's been due to life stuff, going off to uni and so on, but in part it is due to the relatively low frequency of posts and topics here. The most active forum on these boards has always been Starships and Technology, but with the identification of most of the Wolf 359 ships and the end of Enterprise, there's pretty much no new material there. Not to mention in the other Trek forums.
I'm not convinced that changing the structure is so much the problem (although Irishman's ideas for DAC sound good) as people just not posting much new or engaging in threads. Particularly in the General Sci-fi forum, there's plenty of new and older material to be discussed but threads just seem to die after a few posts. Not really sure how to reinvigourate things though.
And while the flameboard isn't the main reason for anyone coming here, it's always been somewhere with interesting (and usually relatively intelligent) debate. Perhaps something other than Bush's cock up of the week is needed.
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Ironically, while I have been the first to point out the somewhat less-than-hospitable treatment of new posters in the past, I must argue along a somewhat different track in this context. I too was once a persecuted newbie, but in retrospect this "persecution" was not entirely undeserved. Some of the stuff I posted was quite inane. However, I stuck around anyway and gradually found my niche, and today I feel as at home here as any place on the 'net. The point being that those who genuinely want to be here will choose to grow thick skins and wise up and do so--we don't need to change to make ourselves more attractive to anybody.
I have no desire to see Flare become the TrekBBS. Don't get me wrong; I like the TrekBBS just fine. Going there is like taking a trip into a big city to see the sights and get a taste of the crowded atmosphere. It can be very rewarding, but it can just as easily become overwhelming and disorienting. It's crazy there. Compare that to the relaxed atmosphere and local color of Flare's small but close community. I enjoy myself much more here. It's comfortable and familiar, and we all know each other pretty well (as forum posters, that is).
Yeah, its pretty quiet here these days, but on most days that's not troublesome to me. Actually, it allows me to maintain a presence and involvement here without compromising my "real" (off-the-Internet) life. I could never do that if this place were a jungle of fora with a flurry of posts being made every hour.
Besides, it's been my experience that, in instances of heavy posting traffic/volume, a great many posts are simply fluff. (Witness all the "shipper" and "slash" threads on the TrekBBS.) Also, while it is indeed elitist and perhaps arrogant, there's definitely some substance to the idea that with increasing group size comes steadily decreasing collective intelligence. Everything comes down to the lowest common denominator.
Furthermore, I have noticed that, as far as Trek is concerned, the splitting up of dicussion into fora dedicated to specific series only serves to fragment and polarize the community into factions as the fans of one series begin to concentrate and bash those of the other series. (Again, look at the TrekBBS.) Better to take a global view.
If I want to go to the TrekBBS, I'll go to the TrekBBS. Let Flare be Flare.
-MMoM
-------------------- The flaws we find most objectionable in others are often those we recognize in ourselves.
Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Cartman: To be blunt, if this "longtime member" doesn't even have the guts to name these people in Flare's supposed newbie-deathsquad or come forward himself with concrete examples of true unjustified bullying towards new members
Well, while we are bring this up again, I bet several of us can look in the mirror and say, 'Tis me. I will use Robert's post again as an example, I didn't suggest to him to make a different post giving us a partial chapter to review, I just said the post was crap. I've emailed him since and corrected myself, and made a few suggestions to him on dealing with forums. As a scifi writer you would think that we could have welcomed him differently, we may well have appreciate his views on things. Alas, we stomped down on him for spamming without correcting him. We are far too quick to judge without looking in to the person or work.
Did you know that he had gotten bad info on how to promote his book, that has a portion going to charity, from some other new authors? No, I didn't either till I checked in to it.
So, you want the guilty parties, look at that thread. If my almost 6 years isn't a longtime member then I am wrong, if it is then I am as guilty as everyone else in that thread for not making a corrective action, instead dismissing it as crap.
Of course, we also shock people like Irishman there, which doesn't make up for our shoot first attitude, but may help.
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
As a member of Flare for only 1 year I can say I have enjoyed being part of this forum and have never felt like I couldn't join and participate. In fact the elitist attitude is something of a good thing since I talk to people who know what they are talking about. As far as I know, Flare doesn't discriminate against race, religion, sexual orientation, or gender and while we may joke about that stuff, I don't see any reason why any person can't join Flare unless its their personal choice not too. Plus Flare gives us freedoms like cursing where any other forum could ban us for talkin' dirty. So Shik, while I admire your concern I think you are fretting over nothing.
Registered: Feb 2005
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Da_bang80
A few sectors short of an Empire
Member # 528
posted
I see no problem with Flare. Flare rules just the way it is. I've been here for quite a while, and I've seen some things. Yes new people are usually welcomed with razzing and ridicule, but sometimes it's moronic when someone joins this forum just to advertise his personal site. Or his first thread is about something entirely stupid.
We have our opinions, and our beliefs. And we discuss them. And if it's with the same people for six years what's the big deal?
Also I'd just like to point out that I totally agree with the previus 5 posters. I'm just too lazy to make a big spiel like everyone else...
-------------------- Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. The courage to change the things I cannot accept. And the wisdom to hide the bodies of all the people I had to kill today because they pissed me off.
posted
Originalish name was Solarflare, it was shortened.
What was it call when The Behaviour Group had it? Just UP? I am too old to remember that far back, say, where my walker at?
-------------------- "You are a terrible human, Ritten." Magnus "Urgh, you are a sick sick person..." Austin Powers A leek too, pretty much a negi.....
Registered: Sep 2000
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