quote:Dwight Porter was US ambassador to Lebanon in June 1967. He states that on June 8 CIA men showed him radio transcripts, translated into English, which recorded talk between an Israeli pilot and his home base. The pilot protests that the ship he is attacking is American; the home base orders him to attack anyway.
posted
Sooooo... what, Israel was trying to make it look like Egypt was attacking the Liberty? Or they hoped to destroy the Liberty with all hands so that we wouldn't know exactly what happened and might assume Egypt had done it? That... actually sounds reasonable. I have to wonder exactly how far up in the military hierarchy the plan would have gone, were that the case.
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quote: I have to wonder exactly how far up in the military hierarchy the plan would have gone, were that the case.
I would imagine either all the way up or just at a local level (eg a local commander getting confused reports from the battlefield decides to try and get Israel some help). I doubt we'll ever know the whole truth about this incident; or at least not for a very long time!
On an aside the Israelis did 'do a deal' with us and the frogs prior to Suez; the Israelis would attack Egypt then we'd move in and take Suez/shoot up a few Egyptians.
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quote:Dwight Porter was US ambassador to Lebanon in June 1967. He states that on June 8 CIA men showed him radio transcripts, translated into English, which recorded talk between an Israeli pilot and his home base. The pilot protests that the ship he is attacking is American; the home base orders him to attack anyway.
Hmmmm!
You cut off the juicy little tidbit at the end of that quote:
quote:Porter never saw the transcripts again, but stands by his story.
In other words, he has no proof and is merely going from memory.
Hmmmm to you too.
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Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
And "hmmmm" right back at you. If you saw documents which showed that Israel knew Liberty was a US ship, would YOU be likely to forget them? Somehow, I doubt it.
posted
Well, lets see, after 40+ years of seeing this elusive document, and having to read so many other papers in connection to his ambassadorial duties...yeah, I think he might have a problem remembering exactly what the paper said. There's no way he can remember it word for word.
Besides, you have no clue as to how good this guys memory even is. You're just assuming its perfect and he knows what he's talking about since he happens to agree with your theory.
-------------------- "Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."
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quote:Well, lets see, after 40+ years of seeing this elusive document,
He didn't see the document BEFORE the attack, and certainly not years in advance.
quote:Besides, you have no clue as to how good this guys memory even is. You're just assuming its perfect and he knows what he's talking about since he happens to agree with your theory.
Neither do you have any clue as to how good this guy's memory is. Right now, yes, his qualifictions speak quite loudly to me.
And it's more than just my theory, it's a theory which fits the facts, and which is agreed upon by a great many of people in upper levels of the military and the government of the time in which it happened (and many from the current, as well).
And his qualifications on the matter seem kind of lacking. It's like the ambassador to Brazil claiming the NSA sent him papers saying the Israeli's purposly attacked the Liberty...the guy isn't directly involved nor has he anything to do with the Liberty, so why would he remember years later what some NSA paper said about an accident in the country he's not even in?
And as for your theory, yeah it might fit the facts, but are you saying ours doesn't? It'd be rather dumb for a theory to last for 40 years if it wasn't based on any facts...
As for your "large number of high up military people" who agree, I'd love to see a list. Those few you listed a few pages back hardly count as a large number nor as the military elite...
-------------------- "Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."
-Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney, LeMans
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quote:It'd be rather dumb for a theory to last for 40 years if it wasn't based on any facts...
Your fit the facts as seen in the Boards of Inquiry. The problem is that the Boards of Inquiry were falsified, so that sort of erodes your basis, don'tcha think?
quote:And his qualifications on the matter seem kind of lacking. It's like the ambassador to Brazil claiming the NSA sent him papers saying the Israeli's purposly attacked the Liberty...the guy isn't directly involved nor has he anything to do with the Liberty, so why would he remember years later what some NSA paper said about an accident in the country he's not even in?
He's not from Brazil. He was in Lebanon. Now, perhaps you don't know where Lebanon is, or the role it played in the 6-Day War, but if as one theory goes the Liberty was attacked to draw the US into war with the Arabian nations, than being the ambassador to Lebanon is certainly someone in the "know." Also, no one was in the country the "accident" took place in - the attack happened in international waters.
quote:As for your "large number of high up military people" who agree, I'd love to see a list. Those few you listed a few pages back hardly count as a large number nor as the military elite...
I said military and government. I don't believe I said 'elite', however there are certainly quite a few Secretariess of State and other high ranking posts - Senators, Congressmen, Intelligence Agency Directors - and as for your claim that there aren't enough, how many more would satisfy you? Ten? Twenty?
posted
You've shown no statements from these supposed people though, so right now you have a grand total of...zero.
-------------------- "Lotta people go through life doing things badly. Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."
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Registered: Mar 1999
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quote:You've shown no statements from these supposed people though,
Before you post in this thread again, you need to go back to page one and read through. Okay?
"I can tell you for an absolute certainty that they knew they were attacking an American ship." - Oliver Kirby, NSA Operations who looked into the attack in 1967
US Secretary of State Dean Rusk said after the attack, that an accident might occur for a few minutes, but there was no way that the very distinctive looking USS Liberty could be fired on for over an hour at close range without being identified as American.
Dwight Porter was US ambassador to Lebanon in June 1967. He states that on June 8 CIA men showed him radio transcripts, translated into English, which recorded talk between an Israeli pilot and his home base. The pilot protests that the ship he is attacking is American; the home base orders him to attack anyway.
That's THREE right there, plus some more stuff from Dean Rusk and Moorer in there. ZERO my ass, and since you're only aim seems to be "Waaah, he saw documents 40 years ago and his memory is shit, therefore Israel didn't attack the Liberty" please either try a new line of attack in this thread, or don't bother.
posted
A "certainty" with no follow-through, an opinion, and a mysterious visitation from 'CIA men.' (in black, no doubt.)
This has the makings of a great movie. I see Leslie Nielsen in the lead role as the investigative reporter.
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
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posted
Or in other words, "All I can do is allude to a grand conspiracy to try to make Snay look silly, although I haven't done a character assassination yet on Ward Boston, so I'm making myself look silly and have nothing further to add to this discussion."
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Ladies and gentlemen, the most apropos quoting of "Time Bandits" ever...
"Oh, Benson..DEAR Benson...you are so mercifully free of the ravages of intelligence."
-------------------- "The best defense is not a good offense. The best defense is a terrifyingly accurate and devastatingly powerful offense, with multiply-overlapping kill zones and time-on-target artillery strikes." -- Laurence, Archangel of the Sword
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posted
Okay, so we'll just take that as "Yes, it's true, I can't substain any case so now I'm going to attempt to character assassinate Mr. Benson, because I can't touch Captain Boston, who threatens the credibility of the Inquiry upon which I base all my comments."
Door is on your left, Rob. Would you still care for the pity-party? We can still arrange it. Since you seem only to be managing snappy little insults to cover your big loss, why don't you just swallow your pride, exit stage left, and stop wasting all our precious time?
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