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» Flare Sci-Fi Forums » Community » The Flameboard » Is Iraq Spiraling Our Of Control? (Page 4)

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Author Topic: Is Iraq Spiraling Our Of Control?
Toadkiller
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If the US would let them they might. Remember, the UN can't force the US to do anything unless they vote to use force. Which, ain't going to happen

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Twee bieren tevreden, zullen mijn vriend betalen.

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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
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Right. And just in case you haven't been following the news too closely: the UN has demanded equal participation FROM THE START, and would be lending a lot MORE aid if the neocons weren't constantly stonewalling it to hold on to their fucking reconstruction contracts. Guess morality wasn't and isn't that important to the US either, eh?
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Highway Hoss
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What really concerns me is how this war in Iraq (and Afghanistan) is not helping against our real enemy, Al-queda; if anything, this Iraq occupation (in more ways than one) is actually aiding and abetting terrorism by proving to Arabs just how dangerous and arrogant Americans truly are.

What really makes many Arabs angry is how we back authoritarian regimes and support Israel so unconditionally. Bush and his neocon-artists in this regard has been particulary bad. They have lifted the bans on assassinations by the US Government, they have shown complicit backing of Ariel Sharon's building of a security wall around the West Bank (which seriously violates UN resolutions) and have generally behaved in a high-handed and arrogant manner. To be fair, the Arab governments are also responsible; by refusing to conduct any sort of democratic reform, they are only aggravating internal tensions and forcing opposition parties to more extreme measures.

No one argues Saddam Hussien is a saint by any means; however its not enough to simply remove a dictator; you also have to provide an alternative that will truly make people's lives better. In this respect the US has failed miserably. We have not fully repaired the basic infrastructure of Iraq, nor have we provided an Iraqi govenment that is truly capable of administering the country. The so-called "June 30" deadline for handing over control is a sham; the provisions our government laid down effectively leaves most of the country's economy in control of American corporations like Haliburton.

Let's face it, the Neocon-artists are not spreading democracy, they are spreading corporate imperialism.

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The best way to predict the future is to create it.

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Doctor Jonas
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With measures like funding the opposers of Chavez in Venezuela (meaning, financial support for big enterprises and banking institutions contrary to the demagogic, yet, democratic, Hugo Chavez's presidency), you know the US won't do anything good anywhere else.
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Sol System
two dollar pistol
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Al Qaeda.
Al Qaida.

Possibly others. But never ever anything that starts "qu."

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Jay the Obscure
Liker Of Jazz
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Nice of you to come out of lurk to post Mr. Simon. [Smile]

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Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war.
~ohn Adams

Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine.
~Brad DeLong

You're just babbling incoherently.
~C. Montgomery Burns

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Highway Hoss
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Jonas Bashir:
With measures like funding the opposers of Chavez in Venezuela (meaning, financial support for big enterprises and banking institutions contrary to the demagogic, yet, democratic, Hugo Chavez's presidency), you know the US won't do anything good anywhere else.

You can also look at what is happening in Haiti; the recent coup and removal of Aristede was aided and abetted by Washington. The noecons hate Aristede because Bill Clinton liked him and held him in power.
As one writer noted, one thing the US Government fears and hates more than anything else is what he called "A good example", that is, a South American country capable of standing up to American businesses. That's one reason for the continuing embargo on Cuba.

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The best way to predict the future is to create it.

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Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
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Please site documentation of Washington aiding in Aristede's removal.
I'd be intrested in reading that, as I've seen nothing on CNN, BBC or the newspapers to back up that claim.

The only person I've heard say that was so far to the Left as to be rabid.
And Aristede himself said he was "kidnapped by the americans" but his chief aide that evacuated with him says otherwise.

HOw was Hati "standing up" to anyone: it's one of the most poverty stricken countries in the world and their leader was insanely unpopular by lining his own pockets with the country's money: ever think those might be factors in people wanting to get rid of him?

Living here in south Florida, I have a much closer viewpoint on Hati than most, and I work with six Hatian coworkers that have told me of the hopeless conditions over there and how happy they are that Aristede is gone.
Mabye something can change now for the better.

Assuming the US doesnt back another version of Aristede or try to re-install him to power, that is.

[ April 11, 2004, 08:13 PM: Message edited by: Jason Abbadon ]

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Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
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"And Aristede himself said he was 'kidnapped by the americans'..."

Well, the only evidence I've heard is Aristide's own statement. But, it's not like it wasn't a believeable story.

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Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
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Why would we kidnap him?
If we wanted him removed, we could've just prevented his escape.
HIs own people would've "removed" him forever.

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Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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TSN
I'm... from Earth.
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Well, this way, we got rid of him, but we can still pretend we were actually being helpful.
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Cartman
just made by the Presbyterian Church
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"Mabye something can change now for the better."

Going by the feeds that were coming from Haiti in the month or so leading up to Aristede's "departure", I wouldn't count on it.

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".mirrorS arE morE fuN thaN televisioN" - TEH PNIK FLAMIGNO

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Veers
You first
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The problem is, no matter how bad Aristide was...he was democratically elected, in the beginning at least, and no matter what anyone says, the rebels that ousted him were ten times worse than he was.

THEIR war was killing all the innocents in Haiti.

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Meh

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Jason Abbadon
Rolls with the punches.
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Even if he was democratically elected, he constantly screwed his own people and brought this (violent) uprising on himself.

Three bucks says the UN gets involved once things get to the "international news stage".

Of course, many more people will be dead by then.

...and someone will blame it all on the US. [Wink]

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Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering.
-Aeschylus, Agamemnon

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Veers
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You mean Iraq? Or Haiti? Because Haiti's now gone from the "international news stage."

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Meh

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