-------------------- "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.
Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by The_Tom: This was posted to fark earlier today. Thought-provokey. Yes.
Nice, but most Democrats ran on a pro-slavery ballot back then while most abolitionists and anti-slavery voters were Whigs....and dare I say it: Republicans (gasp!). Your comparison shows that the Democrats managed to change their viewpoint on a critical issue (flip-flopping, as it were) and take over another party's territories.
If I recall correctly: it's been a while.
-------------------- Justice inclines her scales so that wisdom comes at the price of suffering. -Aeschylus, Agamemnon
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I'd have to say that isn't what the comparison is meant to say at all. Suggestion: "Republican" and "Democrat" are not the important factors being considered, though they are the, uh, superficial signifiers.
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
My understanding is that, around the time of the New Deal up through the civil rights movement, the Democratic and Republican parties essentially switched sides.
Now, if you want to really get confusing, consider the fact that, in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, the predecessor to the Democratic party was called the "Republican party".
Registered: Mar 1999
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Saltah'na
Chinese Canadian, or 75% Commie Bastard.
Member # 33
posted
quote:Originally posted by Omega: You don't invade another country to bring the people democracy.
Germany and Japan would like to have a word with you.
Then invade Canada. Surely, this country could do better than the so-called "Evil Liberal Army Of Nitwits".
The primary objective to invade a country is to remove a definite threat. Democracy is only a possible byproduct and is almost never considered as a primary goal. This is assuming of course that everything goes well after the fact, like say, the first Gulf War?
-------------------- "And slowly, you come to realize, it's all as it should be, you can only do so much. If you're game enough, you could place your trust in me. For the love of life, there's a tradeoff, we could lose it all but we'll go down fighting...." - David Sylvian FreeSpace 2, the greatest space sim of all time, now remastered!
Registered: Mar 1999
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Saltah'na, that "invade Canada" schtick might have been funny the first two times you used in on the flameboard, maybe a little bit amusing the third...but this is your fifth rehash of the same old joke.
Not only is it a completely useless and inane contribution, its just a lame rehash of what used to be amusing in, oh, a marginally funny movie five years ago.
Registered: Mar 1999
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-------------------- "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.
Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Omega: You don't invade another country to bring the people democracy.
Germany and Japan would like to have a word with you.
I actually missed that till I saw Saltah'na respond to it.
Germany and Japan were invaded due to a world war.
Not because some bunch of ideologues took control of policy making and thought it would be good to spread democracy at the point of the sword.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I'm not familiar with his pre-WW2 thought, but didn't Churchill want to go to war with Germany to strike back against Hitler preemptively when the Rhineland was remilitarized? I'm not sure that's exactly like planting a democracy in another country, but couldn't that lead to that policy result?
Mucus: I figured that was the movie you meant, but I thought I would help out.
-------------------- "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.
Registered: May 1999
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posted
I'm not sure I follow your thinking on that Counselor.
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
I think what I was trying to get at was whether Churchill was trying to do something very close to spreading democracy at the point of a sword. By going to war against Germany before an actual blow had been landed on the Allies, but after the Rhineland was remilitarized, a clear violation of Treaty of Versailles (sp?), it would have looked more like a preemptive war to keep Hitler from getting into a position where he could have overrun the entire continent. And maybe, just maybe it might have let the German public know this kind of behavior would not be tolerated and that it should get new leadership if this was the only policy someone like Hitler was going to pursue.
Sorry if I'm making lazy thinking mistakes. Distracted trying to study at the same time...
-------------------- "Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survivial or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed."
"...attaining one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the pinnacle of excellence. Subjugating the enemy's army without fighting is the true pinnacle of excellence."
-Sun Tzu, The Art of War, 6th century B.C.E.
Registered: May 1999
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posted
Yes, I'm sure Churchill wanted to go to war long before he had an excuse. But he didn't, and it wans't up to him. And when he did have an excuse, it still wasn't his decision, he wasn't Prime Minister.
And while we can be certain that a lot more thought went into what would happen once Germany had been conquered, than went into what would happen to Iraq after Georgie-boy pulled his PR stunt on the aircraft carrier, the main point of invading Germany was to defeat it. For all Churchill knew, the populare and democratic result of the first free German elections could have been "Actually, ve are liking being the Nazis and invading everyone, ja?"
And since when was Japan invaded per se? Wasn't it simply occupied as one of the terms of the armistice?
-------------------- Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war. ~ohn Adams
Once again the Bush Administration is worse than I had imagined, even though I thought I had already taken account of the fact that the Bush administration is invariably worse than I can imagine. ~Brad DeLong
You're just babbling incoherently. ~C. Montgomery Burns
Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
And actually making stuff up. The reason the British Empire went to war with Germany was because Hitler invaded Poland and we really couldn't not any longer. After the Rhineland, Austria, the Sudetenland, the rest of Czechoslovakia, the existance of the Luftwaffe, etc. Hitler actually became leader through perfectly constitutional means rember, and the Nazi party was genuinely popular, at least to start with (Around 30% in the last free elections).
-------------------- "I am an almost extinct breed, an old-fashioned gentleman, which means I can be a cast-iron son-of-a-bitch when it suits me." --Jubal Harshaw
Registered: Feb 2002
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