posted
To be fair, I do occasionally leave my house to do talk to people in a social capacity, and haven't got time to spend hours at the local library looking up stats to argue with a bunch of fanatics who live in another continent. (First has an excuse, because he works in a library, and is quite obviously out of his tree ).
Still, after having spent another fun month in a temp job up London, I will put my vote in with the "mayo and any meat" catagory of bap. But mainly turkey and chicken.
Although it's quite nice with sossy and bacon.
Gee, us brits have boring sandwiches, don't we.
And as a final point in the debate, ignoring stats (DON'T!), First's comment of "and they feel safe?" probably sticks out most. We do. Not in a "we leave our doors open and neighbours pop in for tea all the time" kind of way, but just comparing it to the impression I get from US TV, newspapers, and general talking to people, we either have a safer country, or a safer feeling country.
Or maybe I'm just big and scary.
Still, A guy in our office got mugged last Saturday. In quite a rough area of London. Now that was bad and all. But after taking a quick straw-poll of the 10 people in our office, most girls aged 20-35, we found that the total number of muggings we'd all received was...one. I'd be curious to see how many of the US forum-goers had seen acts of violence or experienced them. The fact that a fair number of you have screwed-up parents is already a depressing sign.
(That was all over the place, wasn't it? Sorry.)
------------------ "Sometimes I wish the planet would be scoured with cleansing fire. Other times I just wish Frank would be." Sol System
posted
Well, I'd like to say that the majority of people in the US don't have screwed up parents...the majority of people you hear about in the news etc. probably do though.
------------------ "Goverment exists to serve, not to lead. We do not exist by its volition, it exists by ours. Bear that in mind when you insult your neighbors for refusing to bow before it." J. Richmond, UB Student
posted
Yeah, in general, the media projects a picture of America that liberals want everyone to believe is accurate: a gun-ridden, violent society where everyone is a potential homicidal maniac. Not to mention incompetant. As the statistics show, this is simply not the case. This is the reason people are more afraid here than they are in, say, Australia, where they have twice the crime rate. Because the media so sensationalizes the crimes that DO take place. (Well, except when they involve a certain president...) People actually start believing that this is what all of America is like, when it's really not. This gets the liberal agenda more support. I mean, if everyone really WAS in incompetant boob with a gun and a mental problem, I'd probably want to outlaw guns, too.
Think about this: how many of the school shootings in the past year would have taken place if it weren't for the media making such a huge deal out of Columbine?
------------------ You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.
posted
Each of you has only been mugged once?!? As if getting mugged is something you expect to happen? I have never been mugged, and I expect that most American forumites have not been mugged, either. Despite the hype, America is safer.
Of course, I realize that since some of you believe I am a large, animated bear (without pants) that this provides me with some modicum of protection from muggers ("Dude! No pants -- no pockets. Let's mug someone else!") The fact that I am a larger-than-average individual who looks like he might be able to disassemble any but a professional wrestler might also prove a discouragement to potential muggers. To confess the truth, however, my more normal-sized friends and even the ones with reed-like physiques and no visible defenses have never been mugged.
The nearest to a mugging anyone I personally know came was a few years ago when a disoriented drunk person tried to get into my mom's house after finishing his new year's eve revels. He explained to the police that he thought it was his house, and apologized to my mom before they carted him away to sober up.
posted
No no no no no! Not we've all been mugged once. OUr combined muggings in total have been one. The incident that occured last Saturday. No-one else has been mugged. Although I saw someone get thrown over the bar in my local once. Everyone stood up and applauded. I though I was back in school and someone had dropped a plate.
Most of the people are girls, and do either live in London (not the nice parts), or the more splendid charms of Essex (Romford in particular, which isn't in Essex, but let's not start on that now).
However, are you SURE that Australia has twice the crime rate of the US? Sure they're all convicts, whereas you lot are all religious freaks, but still...
------------------ "Sometimes I wish the planet would be scoured with cleansing fire. Other times I just wish Frank would be." Sol System
"Think about this: how many of the school shootings in the past year would have taken place if it weren't for the media making such a huge deal out of Columbine?"
So, are you saying that ALL school shooting are because of the media making a big deal about another? So, if the media didn't report on, say, rape, then no-one would get raped? Why does that sound like a bats-arse idea?
------------------ "Sometimes I wish the planet would be scoured with cleansing fire. Other times I just wish Frank would be." Sol System
posted
I didn't say all. I simply asked how many. I know that at least one, and I believe two, attributed their actions directally to Columbine.
"However, are you SURE that Australia has twice the crime rate of the US?"
Look at those two links I posted a while back. Except for burglary, they have nearly double our crime rates in every category, and nearly triple in murder, when you account for population difference. And again, that doesn't account for the fact that a good chunk of their populace is too geographically isolated to commit any such crimes.
------------------ You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.
posted
Uhh Omega? Hello? The crime rate in Australia is twice as high as the USA? Which tree did you fall out of this morning? Factor in population ratios, killings and gun related crimes and the US has approximately 60 times the crime rate of Australia.
------------------ "Blind faith is the crutch of fools"
posted
I'd move to the UK, if I didn't already live in Canada.
I was watching a CNN show about gun shows, and they were talking to this really old guy with a bicycle bar moustache, and he was buying his 15 year old son a shotgun.
They asked him wether or not he would attend shows anymore if they implimented real background checks (Not "You look like a good person, here's and MP5K") and he replied:
"No, I don't think I'd come anymore. Too much hassle, with all the paperwork."
Now, I don't want to pidgeonhole, but I'd guess that the majority of gun owners have a relalitvely similar attitude. If I can get a gun hassle-free, why go somewhere with forms?
Aah, I don't care. I live in a country where the guns per capita isn't a three digit number, so I don't really care about this issue anymore. It's too taxing, and if I needed hassle, I've got Math Class to worry about.
------------------ "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." -Mark Twain
posted
Omega's statistics are the Australian Government's own, as anybody who could pull their head out of their nether regions long enough could check.
Just as MY statistics, showing the same problem in the UK, came direct from the Home Office. (Though, O, it DOES help your argument if you can cite sources)
Interesting tidbit for today: Clinton visited Colorado a couple days ago on his 'milk the tragedy 2000' tour, and gave a speech promoting gun control at a 'town meeting'... at which one of the VICTIMS of Columbine (yeah, that's right, a kid who'd been shot, but lived) stood up to Clinton and opposed his gun-show bill.)
Odd, that...?
------------------ "Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
posted
OK, I've finally figured out how to read the dumb chart. We have 18,200 murders every year. Sounds way to high to me, but I have nothing else to contradict it, so...
Now accounting for a 14x population differential, we have 1300 murders for every segment of our population the size of your population. You have 360. That gives us three and a half times your murder rate. Three, if you account for your population's internal geographic isolation.
So where exactly did you get the number 60? We'd have to have a quarter of a million murders every year!
The other statistics I reported earlier are correct, however. You do have twice our rates in most other crimes.
------------------ You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.
posted
Good Lord. I went over this with you for an hour on ICQ a couple of weeks back. Everytime I show you how it works you just turn tail and go back to your old way of thinking. Forget it You're wasting my time. Stats can be interprited and displayed to send just about any message. I'd just love to know how YOU interprit them. Must be in some weird Pat Roberston / Rush Limbaugh language.
------------------ "Blind faith is the crutch of fools"
We must stop the politics of personal destruction.
Actually, I just got some numbers confused in my head. Like, the murder rates of New York and Nashville. Sounds about right, now.
Daryus:
My stats are taken directly from the US government and Australian government web pages. If you have a problem with my interpretation of them, then point it out. Otherwise, you're acting like DT. He'll deny the validity of anything, no matter how simple, just because it doesn't fit into his world view. He denies the validity of the journals of William Bradford himself, on the simple basis that they show a communist society that didn't work. No other reason. These stats are accurate. If anyone would care to point out a problem with my interpretation of them, please do. Otherwise, it stands that Australia has a higher crime rate in most areas, and in murder ours is about 5% of what you claim.
------------------ You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.
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