posted
Ah, but if he will not listen to logical argument (unless it reinforces his belief system)...
I think the lesson here (if anyone will hear it) is that when someone stubbornly refuses to budge on one single topic, you should move on to a different topic.
"The Earth is flat" is only one tiny aspect of who Daryus is, and to focus on the bit you disagree with is akin to hating a particular restaurant because, although they have a menu of thousands of dishes that might appeal to you, they serve one dish that you don't like. Move on to another subject. It's less important to agree than it is to understand.
--Baloo
------------------ "Sometimes "dark" is just a way of saying you�ve nothing to add, only a new way to subtract."
posted
Actually YOU'RE ALL WRONG!!! BWAHAHAAAH!!! The distance between the poles are shorter than the distance between two opposite points of the equatol because of the constant rotation, so it's slightly burger-shaped*. (*best metaphor at short notice)
I know I can't prove it 'cause I haven't been in orbit carrying a ruler, but this is at least scientifically accepted.
------------------ -At least I can get it up without biomechanical pumps. -Try falling into a pit of lava, Moffy. Then see how horny you feel.
[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited March 15, 2000).]
posted
I believe Earth is a disc resting on 4 elephants, who are standing on A'Tuin, the Great Turtle!!
No seriously, how can earth be flat?? In zero-gravity, liquid forms a bubble. Earth was once liquid (or liquid enough), so it is shaped like an orb! Then rotation sets in, and you get a slightly burgerlike shape.
AHA! BEAT THAT!!
------------------ "When You're Up to Your Ass in Alligators, Today Is the First Day of the Rest of Your Life." -- Management slogan, Ridcully-style (Terry Pratchett, The Last Continent, Discworld) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prakesh's Star Trek Site
[This message has been edited by Prakesh (edited March 15, 2000).]
posted
Person X, of Y2K years ago, never existed. He is a fabrication, based upon Person *, who lived two centuries earlier, said similar things, but was still smart enough to know the earth was really round.
You may declare jihad now.
------------------ "Nobody knows this, but I'm scared all the time... of what I might do, if I ever let go." -- Michael Garibaldi
posted
Folks, let's simplify this a bit, shall we?
quote:"The World is flat".
Disprove that. I believe it is true, and no amount of science will ever convince me otherwise, because the book of Person X, from Y2K ago says so.
So, go ahead, disprove it.
[Emphasis added]
The key here is that he has already stated that he will not listen to any proof that contradicts his belief. Therefore, you can't convince him by presenting proof. The fact that it contradicts his belief system is "proof" to him that the information is false. The deck is stacked, boyos!
It's like asking someone to grab his own ear and lift himself to the top of a skyscraper. It can not be done.
[Let me know when any of this starts sinking in, okay?]
------------------ "Sometimes "dark" is just a way of saying you�ve nothing to add, only a new way to subtract."
posted
(Regardless of how this sounds, I'm trying to take Daryus seriously and gain insight into his metaphor...)
Daryus, do you believe the earth is flat because "the book of Person X" says so or because "God says so?" Or do you believe Person X and God to be one and the same? Or do you believe God was speaking through Person X, or that Person X was God's messenger? Do you believe the aforementioned book of Person X to be completely without error in matters of fact as well as matters of faith and practice?
You seem to be trying to prove a point about faith. I'm trying to determine what you're placing your faith IN (a God, a person, or a book). But a better question might be, "WHY are you placing your faith in whatever it is?" Was it an arbitrary choice made at random? Are you doing it because your parents did, or because 99% of the people in your nation do, or because someone forced you to, or because it's an ingrained part of your culture to, or because it's fashionable, or because it "feels right in your heart," or because you like the way it looks on a tee-shirt? Or do you have some concrete, logical reason for placing your faith where you've placed it?
In other words, is your faith BLIND faith (which, I would agree, is "the crutch of fools") or is your faith an EDUCATED faith? Or would you refuse to consent the existance of the latter?
------------------ Dane
"Mathematicians have long held that a million monkeys banging on a million keyboards would eventually reproduce the collected wisdom of the human race. Now, thanks to the internet, we know this is not true." -- Robert Silensky
posted
Oops, I asked too many questions and overwhelmed you, didn't I? Sorry about that, it's a bad habit of mine. I'll try to slow down a little.
Thought for the day: "Some people are so 'open-minded' that their brains have fallen out."
The point: There is an opposite extreme to "closed-mindedness," and it's just as dangerous.
------------------ Dane
"Mathematicians have long held that a million monkeys banging on a million keyboards would eventually reproduce the collected wisdom of the human race. Now, thanks to the internet, we know this is not true." -- Robert Silensky
posted
The one thing I always have trouble with is some peoples complete rejection of science. What is it about science that they find so troubling that causes them to ignore it. Science for the most part comes from mathmatics which we all know is fix, 2+2 always equals 4. If you trust math, why not science?
------------------ Death before Dishonor! However Dishonor has quite a disputed defintion.
posted
They illogically reject modern science as being artificial. For a more main stream approach look at how the mass media treats chemicals. While all nature is made of chemicals, our society has come to think of them very negativivly. A chemical spill is automatically life threatening, and chemicals being added to food is automatically unhealthy. In truth however chemicals are everywhere and everything.
IP: Logged
Math and science are treated differently because mathematics is an abstract concept. We defined the rules, so it has to follow them. Science is the attempt to deduce how a pre-existant system works. It's dependant upon accurate observations and interpretation of those observations.
------------------ You are wise, witty, and wonderful, but you spend far too much time reading this sort of trash.
quote: Daryus, do you believe the earth is flat because "the book of Person X" says so orbecause "God says so?" Or do you believe Person X and God to be one and the same? Or do you believe God was speaking through Person X, or that Person X was God's messenger? Do you believe the aforementioned book of Person X to be completely without error in matters of fact as well as matters of faith and practice?
You seem to be trying to prove a point about faith. I'm trying to determine what you're placing your faith IN (a God, a person, or a book). But a better question might be, "WHY are you placing your faith in whatever it is?" Was it an arbitrary choice made at random? Are you doing it because your parents did, or because 99% of the people in your nation do, or because someone forced you to, or because it's an ingrained part of your culture to, or because it's fashionable, or because it "feels right in your heart," or because you like the way it looks on a tee-shirt? Or do you have some concrete, logical reason for placing your faith where you've placed it?
In other words, is your faith BLIND faith (which, I would agree, is "the crutch of fools") or is your faith an EDUCATED faith? Or would you refuse to consent the existance of the latter?
Wow. *L* No this isn't an examination of my faith. The point I am making is not the what, where of why of faith. I'm talking about two irreconcilable points of view here. What I'm attempting to demonstrate is the frustration we of the non-religions pursuasion feel when we throw up reams of ideas and hit a brick wall, based on an idea that is instilled in most cases rather than discovered.
I got the idea for this from a teacher I had a couple few yeas back in high school. He was a fundamentalist christian to the core. Anything we'd throw at him he'd have an answer for. Hell he even had a bible reference to explain dinosaurs. Suffice it to say that we who took him on in a debate (and yup, we thought ourselve pretty damn smart) were totally stumped by his unwillingness to move outside his paradgim. In other words his mind was totally lacking in any scientific analysis of the facts we presented him with. Very irritating.Moving along...
The feeling I'm trying to get in people here is frustration. From here on, attempt to challenge the viewpoint I've stated above, with logic, contrary belief etc, I'll refute it all, using MY version of the logic. You'll get the idea.
------------------ "Blind faith is the crutch of fools"
because of the constant rotation, so it's slightly burger-shaped*. 
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